It was as much BB's genius as Carroll's stupidity

One thing that is overlooked in the Pete Carroll's pass over run decision was Bill Belichick's decision not to call a timeout.

Rumblings from Matt Patricia was that when they put out their run defense but with extra DBs as opposed to LBs, they were baiting the Seahawks to throw the ball.

As soon as the Marshawn Lynch was tackled on 1st down, i was screaming at Bill to call a timeout so if we get the ball back we'd have time to do something. They didn't call a timeout apparently because they got the look they wanted. From the post game interviews, BB and Patricia were extremely confident in what was going to happen on the goal line it seemed delusional, but maybe it wasn't.

BB said not taking the timeout did 3 things; forced them to throw as there wouldn't be time to run 3 times, it didn't allow them to think about the play and they made a silly call and thirdly, it allowed them to keep to look they wanted.

It was a genius decision not to call the timeout although it still took a massive effort from Browner Butler to make the interception, but by not taking the timeout, it made the play possible.

That's why we all say that Belichick plays chess while the rest of the NFL plays checkers.

I think we were all wanting the timeout but Bill made the clock a factor that it wouldn't have otherwise been for the reasons you describe.

1960Pats said:

That's why we all say that Belichick plays chess while the rest of the NFL plays checkers.

Click to expand...

and he plays it in the opposing coaches' heads.

The OP comment about Patricia hinting the D alignment was bait confirms what I was suspecting from the personnel and Seattle coaches' comments. Last night I saw Heath Evans do a video breakdown showing how the Pats put eight in the box, overloading the Seattle blocking scheme. IIRC it was 6 D linemen, 2 LBs and 3 CBs, no safety. Looked like they were selling out to stop the run, Seattle answered with 3 receiver set, Pats manned up and Butler did his job. So did Browner, jamming the rub man so Butler could break on the ball unimpeded.

BTW can anyone confirm the uncertain memory I have of the officials delaying the start of that play to allow response after a substitution? I remember that happening, and the announcers commenting on it, just not certain if it was that play. Think it was, but not sure. IIRC the 'Hawks called a TO, with the announcers commenting that they were a little disorganized and confused, after Lynch's run. My suspicion is that the Pats had loaded up with eight in the box, and I wonder if Seattle didn't have a blocking scheme prepared so they called the TO and went with the three wides so the officials delayed the start of the play for NE to respond to the personnel grouping. Didn't notice if Pats made any change, or maybe that was when they went to the eight in the box grouping? Whatever, result was CHECKMATE!

It was an odd playcall, for sure. Hard to fault Wilson. The receiver looked wide open. The amount of ground Butler covered on the play is amazing.

But...it wasn't stupidity at all. You have 50 seconds or so and one timeout. To maximize your potential tries at the endzone, you *have* to run at least one pass play. The Pats dared them to throw with their goal line D and they chose that moment to run the one pass play.

It was a solid football decision by Carroll and a great defensive scheme by Belichick.

I agree. They baited Seattle based on previous scouting IMO. The fact that Butler made the play is amazing but the Patriots were trying to bait Seattle into a match up that gave them the best chance. There is nothing that BB does that's an accident. He might not always win but he's willing to gamble if he feels the odds are in his favor. He's got balls of steel....no deflation there

archstanton543 said:

But...it wasn't stupidity at all. You have 50 seconds or so and one timeout. To maximize your potential tries at the endzone, you *have* to run at least one pass play. The Pats dared them to throw with their goal line D and they chose that moment to run the one pass play.

It was a solid football decision by Carroll and a great defensive scheme by Belichick.

Click to expand...

50 seconds and 1 time out should be enough time to run 3 running plays..no??
Lynch was tackled at the 1 with 1 minute to play..the mistake was that SEA didn't snap the ball again until 25 seconds left...they should have lined up quickly and gotten the next RUNNING play off at about 40 seconds to play. If stuffed, line up quickly again and run the next play with about 15-20 seconds left. If stuffed again, call your last time out. That leaves 4th down with under 10 seconds to play.

BelichickFan said:

I think we were all wanting the timeout but Bill made the clock a factor that it wouldn't have otherwise been for the reasons you describe.

Click to expand...

That's why he's going to Canton and we're not.

sambam94 said:

50 seconds and 1 time out should be enough time to run 3 running plays..no??
Lynch was tackled at the 1 with 1 minute to play..the mistake was that SEA didn't snap the ball again until 25 seconds left...they should have lined up quickly and gotten the next RUNNING play off at about 40 seconds to play. If stuffed, line up quickly again and run the next play with about 15-20 seconds left. If stuffed again, call your last time out. That leaves 4th down with under 10 seconds to play.

Click to expand...

Problem is, if Lynch should happen to score right away, that leaves 40 seconds on the clock. More than enough time for Brady to get into FG range and tie the game.

I know BB is the best coach in the NFL and from what I have heard he did know about that seahawks play which the team went over in practice. However I cannot help but think that if the seahawks hand the ball off the Lynch they win this game.

Fred Toucher this morning said imagine doing sports radio for the next 6 months in a town where there's no hockey or basketball to take a break from Passing-Gate. It would be 4th and 2 only in the Super Bowl amplifying it exponentially. That really summed it up well. What a sh!t storm that would be here.

I think Seattle is getting crushed on the play call because of the result. If Browner doesn't recognize the play and completely jam his man and Butler doesn't do the same and break hard that's a TD. I would wager against any other team in the league it's a TD. People are assuming Lynch scores yet he was 1/5 from the one yard line this year. What if they run it into that defense and somebody shoots a gap and knocks Lynch back to the 5 yard line? Now you're almost committed to passing on 3rd down after using your last timeout.

The best argument I heard was the pass call should have been a roll-out for Wilson where you can either throw if somebody is open, run it in if there's a hole, or just chuck it out of the end zone. I think this may have actually have been the best option.

honestly, that play call seemed something out of josh mcdaniels book

I think the lack of a TO also showed how much BB trusted the D, unlike in other years.

ensoul said:

I know BB is the best coach in the NFL and from what I have heard he did know about that seahawks play which the team went over in practice. However I cannot help but think that if the seahawks hand the ball off the Lynch they win this game.

Click to expand...

Actually, against that formation Wilson should perhaps have sprinted to the outside. If he didn't win, he could have thrown the ball away, so the usual reasoning that you don't want to risk losing yardage on an outside run wouldn't have applied as strongly.

in a challenging moment, the look of genius....he already has the answer

and the other guy....still doesn't know the question


that's the difference right there

notice BB's eye twitch at the very beginning......already scoped and locked in......everything is flashing like the arnolds vision in the terminator

Carroll is numb.......1000 yard stare into a bottle of Oxy

fumbrunner said:

It was an odd playcall, for sure. Hard to fault Wilson. The receiver looked wide open. The amount of ground Butler covered on the play is amazing.

Click to expand...

disagree.

I think Wilson can be faulted.

Primarily, because Butler has now confirmed that Wilson was looking at Kearse and Lockette even before the ball was snapped. Can you imagine Brady or P. Manning or Rodgers doing that? They'd all have been looking to the left (where the Pats were unbalanced) and probably over at the Beast, putting the idea of Play Action in their heads. Browner and Butler knew from the stacked set up and Wilson's "tell" exactly what the play was going to be...and they had practiced for it during the week. Browner shouts at Butler words to the effect "you know what you have to do" and then jams Kearse at the line, before he can push him back into Butler's path. The rest is now NFL history.

Secondarily, because a Peyton or Rodgers or Brady would have read the situation in the split second it took to see that Kearse had not gotten the "rub" on Browner and that therefore there was a corner unaccounted for. One of those guys would have then thrown the ball half way to the grand canyon rather than into what was now going to be tight coverage. They probably wouldn't even have had that "thought" go through their minds in an articulated fashion it would have happened so fast, but their instinct would have been "broken play get rid of the ball." I say "secondarily" only because it would have taken a "great" QB to make that read that fast and the comparison is unfair; Wilson is not in that category at this time.

everlong said:

The best argument I heard was the pass call should have been a roll-out for Wilson where you can either throw if somebody is open, run it in if there's a hole, or just chuck it out of the end zone. I think this may have actually have been the best option.

Click to expand...

I agree with this. These slants are certainly not their bread and butter. I don't think a passing play is a bad call in this situation. The slant was an odd call. You are right, roll him out, look for the pass or run. If its not there, throw it away or run out of bounds. If you look at the play, if he rolls left, the Patriots player defending Lynch would have had to choose between covering Lynch or going after Wilson.

There was also a game of timeout chicken going on. I think Pete wanted a timeout but didn't want to burn his last and was figuring Bill would call one. Bill was happy with his defensive personnel and knew he was getting just the setup that they had been coached for. He didn't need the timeout but got Pete to squander precious seconds waiting for Bill to call a TO that wasn't coming. By the time Pete realized Bill wasn't gifting him that TO it was too late to change anything. Bill had the trap perfectly baited and Pete fell in.

But let's not forget that it took fantastic plays by Browner and, especially, Butler to snap the trap shut.

A lot of times we have criticized JMcD for throwing on 3rd and short and not running it. This was a similar case. Seattle went by the book seeing the defense,saw the matchups and passed instead of going with instinct. I would not characterize as BB's genius but a gamble like 4th and 2 which paid off . He let the clock roll and possibly carroll was expecting a timeout and didnt get it so they had to think of a play to run ,late in the play clock. Lynch had just run for 4 yards and was over hundred yards.By not taking a timeout there was no breather for lynch -not that he needed one for 1 yard - and they put 3 corners in the defense.
If they score on the pass play, BB is left with 20 secs and 2 timeouts and we are asking why didn't he save timeouts.
The sideline sounds of the game should be very interesting when it comes out.