It is now time for the Brady GOAT case

JMC00 said:

Was listening to WEEI earlier and Tim "how did I get this job" Hasselback was on. It is absolutely hysterical to hear guys now still saying Manning is the greatest

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Hasselbeck is on ESPN now. He is stuttering and is doing his best to argue that Brady isn't the greatest of all time. He is saying it's too many "factors" that go into it and is having a hard time saying Brady is the GOAT.

BradyManny said:

The different eras argument can be applied to statistics. Yes, it is easier to pile stats now. But it's not any easier to win SBs. If anything, the salary cap age should've made winning four much harder.

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Here is the thing. Since Montana entered the league (if not earlier) the game has changed to where the QB is by far the most important factor in winning. Comparing Terry Bradshaw's or Bob Griese's record to Kurt Warner's or Ben Roethlisberger's for example is silly because the role of the QB is much more critical, while in the 60s and 70s you won with running games.
The bottom line (especially since the QB has become so vital) is you win or you don't over the term, and that is how you separate them.

RDS11 said:

I don't think it can be taken off Montana's accomplishment; he had to play the AFC team that got there.
But at the same time, Brady had to to this in the free agency era, when it's hard to keep the core of players for a long period of time. Just for that, I think Brady should get the nod.

I think longevity has to be accounted for. Montana won his first Super Bowl in 1981, his last in 1989 (8 years apart). Bradshaw won 4 in a 6 years span. I think Unitas is the one getting the closest to Brady (first in 1958, last in 1970) but by the time he won his last, we wasn't close to the player he was in his prime; in fact, he got injured in the 1st half of Super Bowl 5 and didn't have a huge impact on the game. Brady was even better as a 37 years old than he was as a 24 years old playing his first Super Bowl (last drive aside, he played okay in his first game, but didn't have to carry the team like he had to last night).

Every way you look at it, Brady gets the nod.

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Really agree with the Longevity aspect. To win Lombardis so many years apart from his first to his fourth in an incredible achievement...and not to be greedy but he is not finished yet.

TommyBrady12 said:

Hasselbeck is on ESPN now. He is stuttering and is doing his best to argue that Brady isn't the greatest of all time. He is saying it's too many "factors" that go into it and is having a hard time saying Brady is the GOAT.

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It's just hilarious to see these guys try to deny it. So what factors does he use for Manning? That he puts up regular season stats? Brett Favre and Dan Marino were the stat leaders before Manning and no-one considered them GOAT.

micronin127 said:

Agree. 1. Brady 2. Montana

Next tier? Elway, Manning, Unitas

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I'd take Marino over Elway.

In my mind, the rankings are like this:

1. Tom Brady. In terms of wins, stats and clutch playoff performances, he wins. Those 2 losses, were not on him.

2. Otto Graham. Winner and statistically, significantly superior to all other QB in his era. The 1-2 here is ahead of #3.

3. Joe Montanna. The NFC was so dominant during his time. The Bears, Giants, Rams and Redskins were all SB quality teams. Nobody in the AFC was. People forgot that SF had great defenses and a HOF receiver and a HOF running back!

4. Bart Star - Winner and commander. Did what he had to do. Not the best pure passer but helped define the position.

5. Jonny U - Winner and leader.

6. Roger Staubach. A better QB than Bradshaw. Just lost to him in SB.

7. John Elway. A loser for many years in the big game but was always a threat to beat you.

8. Marino. A loser but always a threat to beat you.

9. Bradshaw - he did get 4.

10. Manning. A loser but always a threat to beat you. And I am talking about Eli!

First, Congrats to the Pats!. Did not think it possible, but the Hawks are such a classless team i was rooting for the Pats yesterday.

I am 52 , lifelong diehard Bills fan..been watching NFL since 72, so cant go further back than that.

But i cannot even believe this is a discussion, this argument was closed befor yesterday...and its not close

Brady is the GOAT by a mile. Hate that dude, he has given me more soul crushing defeats than any other team...but he is the GOAT

That clutch, game winning TD drive was incredible. ESPECIALLY against a defense who most would be calling the greatest of all time if Seattle would've won.

He's got the clutch SuperBowl winning drives for FGs and now a TD drive. If there was more reasonable time left in 2007 and 2011, he probably would've done it again as well.

I think the #1 question for the greatest-of-all-time-debate is this: "If your life was on the line and you had to pick a QB to win you the game, who do you choose?" - Without a doubt it comes down to Brady and Montana. Then you start to look at the stats, clutch moments, & more, and it becomes pretty hard to argue against it being Brady.

The most ignorant argument I will ever see is that "Montana is 4/4 in SuperBowls! Never lost! 100% winning percentage! No interceptions! Brady lost 2!"

That just means he failed to get there 2 more times. While of course it's all about winning the SuperBowl, making it there is a nice accomplishment in itself. Anyway, if you look at his stats in a couple of those games Montana had the chance to reach the SuperBowl again, he failed MISERABLY. He had a completion % of 39% in an NFC Championship game!

It's such a deceiving argument to make. Only simple minded losers will bring it up. Unfortunately, a lot exist.

He's at worst tied for first. Another ring - there's not even a conversation.

upstater1 said:

I'd take Marino over Elway.

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Marino was a TERRIBLE playoff QB

AndyJohnson said:

Here is the thing. Since Montana entered the league (if not earlier) the game has changed to where the QB is by far the most important factor in winning. Comparing Terry Bradshaw's or Bob Griese's record to Kurt Warner's or Ben Roethlisberger's for example is silly because the role of the QB is much more critical, while in the 60s and 70s you won with running games.
The bottom line (especially since the QB has become so vital) is you win or you don't over the term, and that is how you separate them.

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The Steelers won one (maybe even two) of their Super Bowls despite Terry Bradshaw. He almost cost them a couple SBs.

TBR said:

The most ignorant argument I will ever see is that "Montana is 4/4 in SuperBowls! Never lost! 100% winning percentage! No interceptions! Brady lost 2!"

That just means he failed to get there 2 more times. While of course it's all about winning the SuperBowl, making it there is a nice accomplishment in itself. Anyway, if you look at his stats in a couple of those games Montana had the chance to reach the SuperBowl again, he failed MISERABLY. He had a completion % of 39% in an NFC Championship game!

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Simple response
Brady went to 6 SBs and had 2 one and dones
Montana went to 4 SBs and had 4 one and dones.
As soon as losing in the first round is better than winning your conference championship that argue will have merit.

VrabelJr said:

The Steelers won one (maybe even two) of their Super Bowls despite Terry Bradshaw. He almost cost them a couple SBs.

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Bradshaw actually had some very good SBs. They got there despite him, but once there he played well.

Bonzo said:

He's at worst tied for first. Another ring - there's not even a conversation.

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There isnt one now except for a few crazy people who cant let go of the past.

AndyJohnson said:

Bradshaw actually had some very good SBs. They got there despite him, but once there he played well.

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Maybe that's what I was thinking about.

AndyJohnson said:

Now that he has ring #4 and 3 of the MVP that matters trophies he no longer sits behind Montana.
Both after 15 years in the league btw.

SB Championships
Brady 4
Montana 4

Conference Championships
Brady 6
Montana 4

Playoff Records
Brady 21-8
Montana 16-7

Playoff One and Dones
Brady 2
Montana 4

Playoff TD/Int
Brady 53/26
Montana 45/21

Playoff Passing Yards Per Game
Brady 253.3
Montana 251.0

Regular Season

Win/loss
Brady 160-47
Montana 117-47
(yes, Brady has 43 more wins to the same number of losses)

Att/Comp/%
Brady 7168/4551/63.5%
Montana 5391/3409/63.2%

Yards
Brady 53,258
Montana 40,551

TDs
Brady 392 5.5%
Montana 273 5.1%

Ints
Brady 143 2.0%
Montana 139 2.6%

Rating
Brady 95.9
Montana 92.3

I don't think there is really any doubt that Tom Brady is the GOAT.

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And Brady hasn't had one Hall of Fame offensive player to work with up until now with Gronk.

Mv1029 said:

And Brady hasn't had one Hall of Fame offensive player to work with up until now with Gronk.

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Moss is a HOF player

BradyFTW! said:

The only remaining case for Montana is one of era, since he played in a less QB-friendly one. At this point I don't think even that's enough for him, though, because whatever disadvantage he gets from that should be offset by having Jerry Rice. Brady's the GOAT.

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Brady is doing it in the era of Free Agency - much harder to do it in this environment. Montana had the luxury of having tremendous consistancy with his offensive weapons and Jerry Rice didn't hurt either.

Bruins29 said:

Moss is a HOF player

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Yes, you're correct, I completely blanked on that one. However, over the lenght of his career, Brady has had much less offensive talent to work with.....