Let's talk football: The Patriots and Seahawks defenses - Powered by the secondaries

In an era of souped up offenses, the Patriots and Seahawks have defensive secondaries that can actually shut down offenses. Yes, they need help from the front 7, but they are almost a carbon copy of one another, in terms of both makeup and, arguably, overall talent.

Revis = Sherman (lockdown guy)
Browner = Maxwell (Physical CB)
McCourty = Thomas (Rangy deep safety)
Chung/Harmon = Chancellor (LB/SS hybrid type player)
Both teams have a Nickel DB that they are confident in, as well

Is this the 'new' future for the NFL, or is this just coincidence?

Discuss.

It's the future for now...things are always changing. I imagine that there are more/other rule changes coming and offenses will continue to evolve to counter...maybe in the direction of where the Pats were a few years ago (12 personnel)? I keep hearing that Seattle has struggled a little bit against TEs (11 TDs given up) and from what I remember of Pats games this year that is the position that accounted for the most yards in a few games (for example Bennett and Fleener off the top of my head).

It's a mirage. It's really a Good vs Evil passion play. An acting job. The refs will let the Seattle secondary clutch, grab and interfere as usual the entire game. The Patriot secondary will be afforded almost the same deference except for four or five key plays that lead to easy points for Seattle. Patriot offensive rhythm will never get a chance to get established because of the drive stalling key holding calls on big gainers or 3rd down conversions. In the end, Good will win out. The country will have gotten its pound of flesh. The Marshall Faulk mongoloidal clones will get the air time screaming they told US so....and that will be it for this year.

Next year? Peyton's revenge. Seattle will assume the bad guy role and Peytie will ride off into the sunset of a seat on the NFL channel right next to murderous Ray Ray.

Same as it ever was.

A bit coincidental, in that a defense whose strength was pass rush rather than secondary could also excel in the current environment.

Joker said:

It's a mirage. It's really a Good vs Evil passion play. An acting job. The refs will let the Seattle secondary clutch, grab and interfere as usual the entire game. The Patriot secondary will be afforded almost the same deference except for four or five key plays that lead to easy points for Seattle. Patriot offensive rhythm will never get a chance to get established because of the drive stalling key holding calls on big gainers or 3rd down conversions. In the end, Good will win out. The country will have gotten its pound of flesh. The Marshall Faulk mongoloidal clones will get the air time screaming they told US so....and that will be it for this year.

Next year? Peyton's revenge. Seattle will assume the bad guy role and Peytie will ride off into the sunset of a seat on the NFL channel right next to murderous Ray Ray.

Same as it ever was.

Click to expand...

So basically you are not watching?

Joker said:

It's a mirage. It's really a Good vs Evil passion play. An acting job. The refs will let the Seattle secondary clutch, grab and interfere as usual the entire game. The Patriot secondary will be afforded almost the same deference except for four or five key plays that lead to easy points for Seattle. Patriot offensive rhythm will never get a chance to get established because of the drive stalling key holding calls on big gainers or 3rd down conversions. In the end, Good will win out. The country will have gotten its pound of flesh. The Marshall Faulk mongoloidal clones will get the air time screaming they told US so....and that will be it for this year.

Next year? Peyton's revenge. Seattle will assume the bad guy role and Peytie will ride off into the sunset of a seat on the NFL channel right next to murderous Ray Ray.

Same as it ever was.

Click to expand...

Why do you watch this sport, Joker? I would never follow a sport that I genuinely thought was fixed, especially one that's fixed against the team I root for.

What I find most interesting about this matchup is that the two teams can have such contrasting styles, both in demeanor and coaching, and yet have all the similarities you describe in the OP. The Patriots are quiet (publicly at least) and emphasize positioning in a complex and ever shifting defensive scheme. The Seahawks thrive off of their bravado, emphasize aggression, and run a comparatively simple defense with the mindset of, "Don't think, trust your instincts, they can't beat us." Both have been successful, and obviously both are in the Super Bowl now. It's an interesting thing to see IMO.

Just saw that Kam "the" Chancellor was limited with a knee injury today
https://twitter.com/Curtis_Crabtree/status/561303984690823168

Just like a baseball team can never have too much pitching...

Deus Irae said:

In an era of souped up offenses, the Patriots and Seahawks have defensive secondaries that can actually shut down offenses. Yes, they need help from the front 7, but they are almost a carbon copy of one another, in terms of both makeup and, arguably, overall talent.

Revis = Sherman (lockdown guy)
Browner = Maxwell (Physical CB)
McCourty = Thomas (Rangy deep safety)
Chung/Harmon = Chancellor (LB/SS hybrid type player)
Both teams have a Nickel DB that they are confident in, as well

Is this the 'new' future for the NFL, or is this just coincidence?

Discuss.

Click to expand...

I'm going to disagree with you on the bolded. Firstly i'd suggest that Harmon is more McCourty than Chancellor. When McCourty moves up to match up with a TE or WR, it's Harmon that takes McCourty's spot as the single high safety. The single high was also the role he played almost exclusively in his final year at Rutgers. If you are going to make a Chancellor comp, Tavon Wilson would be the better choice.

But, I actually think the best Chancellor comparison on our team is Jamie Collins. Collins does more in the linebacker role but I certainly noticed that in the last two games that Collins is the guy with the range to attack offensive players in that zone about 10 yards from the LOS and running sideline to sideline. In both the Colts and Ravens games, there were hits that immediately reminded me of Chancellor when Collins made them. The thing is, while Collins is bigger than Chancellor, he's also more athletic.

As for coincidence versus design. I think it's very much design. BB has taken the Seattle defensive formula and given it his own twist. At the backend, the defenses are almost identical but whereas Seattle put speed at the DE and LB spots, BB still favours his bigger lengthier guys - at least for now. But I don't think there's any coincidence in the fact that the two favourites to sign Kevin Williams were the Pats and the Seahawks and that the Seahawks packed up on day one of the draft last year when we drafted Easley.

With Dan Quinn likely going to Atlanta, that's four teams (us, Seahawks, Jacksonville and Atlanta) that are all likely to be following similar defensive formulas. It's a tough formula to enact because a shut down corner and a true single-high safety are tough guys to find but I'd say that it's going to be the future of the NFL, at least for a while.

Deus Irae said:

In an era of souped up offenses, the Patriots and Seahawks have defensive secondaries that can actually shut down offenses. Yes, they need help from the front 7, but they are almost a carbon copy of one another, in terms of both makeup and, arguably, overall talent.

Revis = Sherman (lockdown guy)
Browner = Maxwell (Physical CB)
McCourty = Thomas (Rangy deep safety)
Chung/Harmon = Chancellor (LB/SS hybrid type player)
Both teams have a Nickel DB that they are confident in, as well

Is this the 'new' future for the NFL, or is this just coincidence?

Discuss.

Click to expand...

Basically, these teams have superior defenses because they have above average talent at all three levels, which is hard to assemble. (We should come back to this during the draft and free agency discussions in the offseason.)

I don't agree on the Chung/Harmon = Chancellor SS. Very different players. At 6'3" 232, Chancellor, if healthy, is a force back there along the lines of Rodney Harrison. Neither Chung nor Harmon have that kind of presence or instincts.

The other thing about these teams is the ability of the linebackers to come up to the line and drop into coverage effectively. That's an uncommon feature that makes the secondary better.

manxman2601 said:

I'm going to disagree with you on the bolded. Firstly i'd suggest that Harmon is more McCourty than Chancellor. When McCourty moves up to match up with a TE or WR, it's Harmon that takes McCourty's spot as the single high safety. The single high was also the role he played almost exclusively in his final year at Rutgers. If you are going to make a Chancellor comp, Tavon Wilson would be the better choice.

Click to expand...

goheels22002 said:

I don't agree on the Chung/Harmon = Chancellor SS. Very different players. At 6'3" 232, Chancellor, if healthy, is a force back there along the lines of Rodney Harrison. Neither Chung nor Harmon have that kind of presence or instincts.

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Chung's the starter, so he's the main comparison. I threw Harmon in because he's the guy they put in for Chung when they want someone with a prayer of covering in the passing game.

Deus Irae said:

Chung's the starter, so he's the main comparison. I threw Harmon in because he's the guy they put in for Chung when they want someone with a prayer of covering in the passing game.

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Fair enough, but if they do put Harmon in, they move McCourty up and drop Harmon into McCourty's spot. I don't remember Harmon playing as the (strong) safety very much.