Idle Thoughts – the read option edition

Considering the fact that Belichick and Patricia both preach doing their jobs and keeping their personal responsibilities, I think we match up very well with a read option team.

Of course Wilson is no Tim Tebow, as others have pointed out--but I still like our chances a lot.

I'm not an X's and O's fan, but I hope you guys wont mind me standing here in the corner absorbing in the good, intellectual football vibes of this thread.

It's gotten scary out there.

Danger Zone said:

It's gotten scary out there.

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I'm not sure that it's going to necessarily get better, DZ. I hope that I'm very, very wrong.

As far as defending the read option, we've covered that part with the players staying "home" and just focusing on their personal responsibilities.

Obviously, stopping Lynch will be key. I'm not particularly worried about the WRs/TEs.

Seahawks have read option in their pedigree, but its not read option you have to scheme for when it comes to stopping Wilson. He's actually most dangerous when the pocket breaks down and Wilson can escape defensive lineman to get 20 yards downfield. Or when he's scrambling after the pocket breaks down and suddenly a receiver is open downfield for 30 yards. It happens multiple times in just about every game.

Ultimately this is why Wilson is so dynamic is because you have to scheme for read-option, him staying in the pocket, and him scrambling after the pocket collapses. Tebow was a one trick pony. This is more like scheming against some of those young Michael Vick Falcons teams, except Wilson is substantially smarter.

All of this doesn't even account for Lynch. Personally I think its when the Seahawks get too cute with their offense that they start sucking. The best they've looked this year offensively, in the Arizona game week 16, is when they came out rushing the ball with Turbin (believe it or not) to establish a tough running game, then substituted in Lynch. Once the run game is established Wilson just becomes incredibly dynamic.

Clay Mathews and Co. really did a great job on Wilson. If it weren't for lacking saftey help and a terrible choke job, this guy would be getting lambasted for having such a terrible game against the 'weak' Green Bay defense.

I believe LB play will be crucial versus Wilson. We need Hightower and Collins to be the guys chasing him down. If the linemen do it, they are either going to be too slow to do any damage or they will simply break contain. It'll be like Cam Newton all over again.

Super Bowls always have unlikely heroes. Branch might need to be that guy. Stopping Lynch is crucial. Siliga has not been playing at the same level he did last season. Wilfork has been up and down.

Collins needs to study his butt off before this game. If anything goes wrong in the Patriots' defensive scheme, one of the most natural fixes is to change Collins' assignment. Ideally, I'd like him to be prepared for:

• A generic LB role ...
• ... including some inside blitzes.
  
• A generic LB role, except he presses a TE.
• Spying Wilson.
• McGinest-on-Faulk.
• Swapping roles with Chung, for the sake of confusion.
• Rushing in place of a DL who drops into coverage, for the sake of confusion.
  
• (This one may overlap with some of the foregoing) Swapping roles with Hightower, for the sake of confusion.

Fencer said:

A few things:

• What is a scrape exchange?
• What is fold blocking?
• His name is Casillas.
• You're unusual in forecasting "exclusively nickel". Please say more about that.

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Here is a good illustration of scrape exchange:



Where B is the backer (let's say Hightower) scraping "over the top of the play" and coming down to meet the QB keep. That is, he "shadows" the QB in this particular play and comes to meet him in the gap that the DE preserves for him by sealing to the inside or acting as backside pursuit to the RB (could this be Wilfork?). When B scrapes, he leaves his position open, and the S comes down or cheats down to fill it. That's the exchange. Since I believe we will be in nickel, there will be another S on top, and one less lineman than is depicted in this diagram.

Fold blocks are exchanged blocking assignments used by partnering linemen to either cut off the flow of a fast moving backer who, in this instance, would emerge from scraping into the backfield (again, I envision Hightower) to choke the read option, or to block a down lineman. Fold blocking is very effective if done right because it gives the offense the advantage of angles. You block at an angle and so it’s easy to disrupt the path of a flowing backer or down lineman because you’re not blocking him straight up, but coming at his side which I understand is an effective path disruptor.



The reason I keep mentioning Hightower when I talk about scraping is because he has evolved into a top-notch scraper as he has excellent vision, patience, and instincts. He has a knack for "shadowing" a play without getting tied up or sucked into the blocking. There was a GIF posted in this forum showing how his scrape over the top killed a run play in the Ravens game. I forgot where it is located. If I can find it, I will post here.

And the reason I envision us being in nickel is because I feel we will go with a minimal DL as Seattle doesn't believe in a stout pocket. Their pocket is always fluid (as Wilson is very quick on his feet) and moves at a moment's notice which defeats the purpose of going with a heavy line that would penetrate into the backfield.

I think our linebackers will be very active, and they are best assisted by a hybrid nickel which can add another level of deception in rolling up various personnel to the line in a variety of package so Wilson will not always know who is the spy, who will scrape, or who will simply drop back.

PP2,

Thanks. That's hugely helpful.

So once again the argument is that if anybody spies Wilson it should be Hightower. I'd also argue that if anybody WillieMacs Lynch it should be Collins. I'd further argue that Collins and Hightower should exchange roles at times just to mess with Wilson's head.

Bumping yet another substantive thread. We're on to the Superbowl.

Fencer said:

So once again the argument is that if anybody spies Wilson it should be Hightower. I'd also argue that if anybody WillieMacs Lynch it should be Collins. I'd further argue that Collins and Hightower should exchange roles at times just to mess with Wilson's head.

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That's interesting because I would argue JUST the opposite. On of the great match ups that the Pats have is the availability of a 270 lb LB. THAT's the guy you want tackling MLynch, not Collins. And conversely, wouldn't you want your extraordinarily fast LB chasing after the elusive QB than the 270lb one. Hightower is fast for his size, but necessarily "fast"

Now the REAL trick here is to figure out a way where your secondary people could play man, and NOT get run off by the receivers when the Seahawks run the read option.

BTW- I want to remind people that Seattle didn't run much read option in the NFCCG, until right at the very end and then they ran it very successfully. The reason why they rarely ran a play they probably knew was a good one was earlier in the game Wilson was crushed by Clay Matthews trying to rush the ball. That proves once again, that the KEY to beating the Seattle read option is to hit the QB every time they run that play whether he ends up with the ball or not. They are not going to risk Wilson (who can run the ball more safely other ways) running a play that could get him killed.

PP2 said:

Here is a good illustration of scrape exchange:

View attachment 8255

Where B is the backer (let's say Hightower) scraping "over the top of the play" and coming down to meet the QB keep. That is, he "shadows" the QB in this particular play and comes to meet him in the gap that the DE preserves for him by sealing to the inside or acting as backside pursuit to the RB (could this be Wilfork?). When B scrapes, he leaves his position open, and the S comes down or cheats down to fill it. That's the exchange. Since I believe we will be in nickel, there will be another S on top, and one less lineman than is depicted in this diagram.

Fold blocks are exchanged blocking assignments used by partnering linemen to either cut off the flow of a fast moving backer who, in this instance, would emerge from scraping into the backfield (again, I envision Hightower) to choke the read option, or to block a down lineman. Fold blocking is very effective if done right because it gives the offense the advantage of angles. You block at an angle and so it’s easy to disrupt the path of a flowing backer or down lineman because you’re not blocking him straight up, but coming at his side which I understand is an effective path disruptor.

View attachment 8258

The reason I keep mentioning Hightower when I talk about scraping is because he has evolved into a top-notch scraper as he has excellent vision, patience, and instincts. He has a knack for "shadowing" a play without getting tied up or sucked into the blocking. There was a GIF posted in this forum showing how his scrape over the top killed a run play in the Ravens game. I forgot where it is located. If I can find it, I will post here.

And the reason I envision us being in nickel is because I feel we will go with a minimal DL as Seattle doesn't believe in a stout pocket. Their pocket is always fluid (as Wilson is very quick on his feet) and moves at a moment's notice which defeats the purpose of going with a heavy line that would penetrate into the backfield.

I think our linebackers will be very active, and they are best assisted by a hybrid nickel which can add another level of deception in rolling up various personnel to the line in a variety of package so Wilson will not always know who is the spy, who will scrape, or who will simply drop back.

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This is a nice post PP. How did you add the X's and O's?

A couple of quick points -

1;. The play you drew up looks more like a bootleg action than a true read option. It IS a great example of the 'scraping LB'. The true read option has the QB and RB both attacking the same side, but different holes (one inside, one outside), and usually there will be a TE involved. The play you drew up looks more like a standard run pass/pass look you'd see in most shotgun run and play action pass schemes.

2. I really liked that you took the time to highlight the "fold block" It's a very effective, but very difficult technique to master. It can be readily disrupted by a DLman who is playing the inside eye or shoulder and steps out into the outside's man block (as is often the case. If that DLman forces the OLman into the folding guard or C, you can end up with a big mess at the hole. The other risk is when the DLman you want an angle on is playing the inside shoulder or gap, and gets too much penetration because he hits the gap and the OLman (usually a T) can't reach him.

This was a technique I taught at the HS level with decent results, but its not without its issues, and IMO gets more difficult as the skill level grows, to the point where it is really difficult to block an NFL DLman even when you have an angle on him. The reason, I believe, is due to the fact contact is initiated mostly with the hands on both sides of the ball. Back in the day it would be initiated with the head and shoulders. Much more impact that way.

Just an observation, and thanks again

Another bump for a great substantive thread, from yet another refugee from the noise out there. I'm not an X and O guy, so I can't contribute much but wanted to express my appreciation.

I did like Andy Benoit's deep dive article mentioned above (direct link for convenience below). Interestingly he did not mention the read option much except to point out that Russell Wilson, all season long, did a large amount of his designed runs out of game situations that were late and close (< 8 points, 4Q or OT). He wrote more on Wilson using his legs to extend plays. This suggests to me that the Patriots would optimize to take away the passing game and the non-read-option run game early in the game, and then adjust to the read option later in the game.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/21/nfl-n...-super-bowl-49-preview-andy-benoit-deep-dive/

hieroglyphics said:

Seahawks have read option in their pedigree, but its not read option you have to scheme for when it comes to stopping Wilson. He's actually most dangerous when the pocket breaks down and Wilson can escape defensive lineman to get 20 yards downfield. Or when he's scrambling after the pocket breaks down and suddenly a receiver is open downfield for 30 yards. It happens multiple times in just about every game.

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I would argue that you must scheme for this, because the read option is Seattle's "get out of jail" card for when things go wrong, as they nearly did with GB. For me, Seattle treats the read option not just as a pedigree, but as a failsafe. I think they know, and Carroll knows, that if Wilson feels threatened, he will run, so rather than try to correct that, they decided to accompany it by installing the read option.

I'm pretty sure we'll see this when Seattle falls behind.

Both the Cowboys and San Diego basically shut down the Seattle offense for the entire game. I think the Cowboys held them to 8 first downs and San Diego held them to 15. The Green Bay defense did it for almost 55 minutes.

So, what did they do that was so successful? I don't have an answer that is why I am asking.

Looking at the stats, one thing I notice is that both those teams shut down the running game, especially Wilson.

Great read!

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/how-patriots-can-stop-russell-wilson-read-option

PP2 said:

Great read!

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/how-patriots-can-stop-russell-wilson-read-option

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Great article for explanation and ideas, but I'm not sure it totally hangs together. The first part reads as if the recommendation is "Deceive the QB by defending the read option in multiple ways"; the second part reads as if it recommends a One Best Way to defend the read option.

One could adapt the article's recommendation to say "The unblocked end should always crash down, and sometimes an LB should scrape to fill his spot (in which case it would be a mistake for the QB to keep the ball) and sometimes the LB should not (in which case it would be a a mistake to hand off). But I can't see leaving the defensive left edge totally un-set in any formation.

Ken might argue that the unblocked end should always run at the QB and hit him, whether or not he has the ball. A variant might be that the unblocked end always heads for the QB, but if he's sure that the QB gave up the ball, then he redirects to the RB, since whoever does meet Lynch might need help getting him down anyway.

PP2 said:

Great read!

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/how-patriots-can-stop-russell-wilson-read-option

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This is a great find PP. Interesting that once again most of the photos show a look where the RB is running counter to the QB. In other words the QB is running more like a bootleg action than a true read where the RB and QB start in the same direction.

I don't know if what is shown is the most common example of how they run their RB/QB option. If it is the Pats will have had a lot of recent experience in practicing against it. Games against the Colts and Ravens would have both featured this kind of look, although with those 2 teams there would also be a pass option involved.

BTW- People are making a big deal on how successfull the Ravens were with their gameplan.....and they were......to start. What people forget that after the first 2 TD the Ravens only had 3 more scoring drives the rest of the game. One came on the penalty gifted drive at the end of the half. The other was the opening drive of the 2nd half, and the last was the drive they got their FG. (which was also extended by a 3rd down penalty)

Give credit to the Ravens for coming up with an initial game plan that fooled the Pats. Just rememeber it didn't fool them the entire game. So far this year how ever well the defense is playing in the first half; it has played that much better over the 2nd half....... To the tune of just 13 total 4th quarter points in the last 8 games.

Fencer said:

Great article for explanation and ideas, but I'm not sure it totally hangs together. The first part reads as if the recommendation is "Deceive the QB by defending the read option in multiple ways"; the second part reads as if it recommends a One Best Way to defend the read option.

One could adapt the article's recommendation to say "The unblocked end should always crash down, and sometimes an LB should scrape to fill his spot (in which case it would be a mistake for the QB to keep the ball) and sometimes the LB should not (in which case it would be a a mistake to hand off). But I can't see leaving the defensive left edge totally un-set in any formation.

Ken might argue that the unblocked end should always run at the QB and hit him, whether or not he has the ball. A variant might be that the unblocked end always heads for the QB, but if he's sure that the QB gave up the ball, then he redirects to the RB, since whoever does meet Lynch might need help getting him down anyway.

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The article is just giving an example of how you switch up responsibilities to prevent Wilson from developing a rhythm by keying off the same player again and again. If you say the unblocked end should always crash, what you are essentially doing is just allowing Wilson to quickly get into a comfort zone because he knows the end is coming every time and can key off that.

However if this crashing end suddenly drops back after crashing the last 3 plays, this will throw Wilson off because he'll realize he was given a false key, and since it's post-snap, he's not going to have much time to progress through his reads, and the one drawback to the read option is that you basically only have time to make one read, IIRC.

Whoever is on end, would in a typical football situation, try to set the edge, and the article is suggesting to mix it up, so on one play, set the edge, on another, just blow up the RB no matter what happens or where the ball is. The DE and the LB will have rotating options and assignments, to prevent Wilson from settling on a consistent key. The myriad of options you can get with this is what BB lives for.

That being said, I don't see the read option being deployed unless Seattle falls behind or if the game is close in the 4th.. I think it's something Carroll likes to keep in his backpocket and use sparsely because it tempts Wilson to revert to a sandlot mentality and then his discipline goes out the window.

patfanken said:

This is a great find PP. Interesting that once again most of the photos show a look where the RB is running counter to the QB. In other words the QB is running more like a bootleg action than a true read where the RB and QB start in the same direction.

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I believe it's a QB keep so the counter is just a feint to disguise what happens at the mesh point.