Not so idle thoughts - The wartime edition

Ian · Jan 28, 2015

Quick bump - I inadvertently moved this out but realized Ken put together a pretty solid big picture post on this topic. Good stuff.

IndianPat · Jan 28, 2015

Deflate-gate has turned into a very interesting fight between the NFL and Patriots.
Kraft's statement (challenge) in Phoenix upped the fight to the highest levels of NFL.
One poster asked at some website: Will the loser leave town?
Yes. There is a lot at stake in this fight. Goodell will be loose his job if he lost this fight. For Kraft, his jewels are BB and Tom. If Kraft looses, BB could be suspended or he could walk away in disgust or Tom could walk away from the game.
I do not think we will ever know the full story. Does Goodell have the backing of a section of the owners? Is there a rogue faction within the NFL League office that is working to undermine Kraft and Goodell has got caught in the cross hairs. Who is controlling the leaks?
Yes, Kraft's statement yesterday was quite telling. This story has a couple of months of playing out.
In the meantime, lets get on to he GAME. It has nothing with off field shenanigans.
Except of course, if Ken's fear of a fix comes true. That would be a shame.

zydecochris · Jan 28, 2015

Joker said:
What is this thread?...a sci-fi flick?

Invasion Of The Joker Snatchers!

formerly normal, well adjusted and respected board members are systematically being replaced by Joe Kerr clones....now our beacon of reasonableness, PatFanKen is showing the signs of full blown Joker Goodell hysteria.....

Joe, I clicked a "winner" for this post.

But, it really deserves a bit more than that. This was just plainly a laugh out loud post.

patfanken · Jan 29, 2015

I wouldn't worry about the Pats losing BB to any of this. You have to have done something wrong to get suspended. The best this baffoon and his minions can do is imply, suggrest, disparage, and sling mud This can only be about 2 things. Goodell trying to bring Kraft and the Pats down a peg, or Goodell trying to take the spotlight off his horrible administration of all things in the NFL not having to do with $.

The fact that this hasn't been ajudicated one way or the other in over 2 weeks, and isn't likely to be done for several more is just further proof that Goodell is willing to go to war with Kraft, BB, the Pats, and us. Every day we are being left hanging, subject to all random attacks, regardless of how ridiculous. Any idiot is allowed to give free reign to any claim and get a full hearing from the media. Idiots like Marshall Faulk's latest delusion, or than the Pats comspired to bing Blount back, which is currently being floated (again) by PFT. Its all up for grabs, and while the Pats have to take this public pilloring Lord Roger sits back and watches.....and does nothing.

I imagine if Goodell srews up the fix and Pats manage to win, Bob Kraft will be publically gracious in accepting the trophy. I know I wouldn't.

Tunescribe · Jan 29, 2015

1960Pats · Jan 29, 2015

rochrist said:
The problem with this analysis, probably the only problem with it, is that it's almost certainly largely due to the influence of Kraft that Goodell has kept his job through the ****storm of this season. Who was the first owner out of the gate to defend him? I can't see Goodell setting out to destroy one of his strongest supporters.

Now if you want to go full tin foil hat, I like the theory that there's a under the radar fight going on in the NFL offices, with a /contingent/ that wants to drag down the Pats. That seems possible.

I don't think we need a tin foil hat to see it that way. I like that one better than the Goody is out to get us theory. Goody isn't smart enough to pull this off. This is being done by someone with a serious bug up his ass about the Pats.

I think Pats fans need to stop trying to disprove things that don't exist. After the game is over we can talk about how we want to go forward, but dumping our team is the last thing any Pats fan should do.

Kulko · Jan 29, 2015

Well regardless if this is a deliberate attack or just plain old stupidity, Anybody who allows the current proceedings happen, should be immediately fired.

Currently the NFL allow the media to actively question the validity of the highlight of its league year, and in case of a certain pats win, the validity of its worlds champion, for absolutely no apparent reason. The way this is handled is below NHL-Level of incompetence, which should make the owners think very hard, if they want to go forward in the current setting.

Unfortunately the only Owner with the drive and the standing to solve this situation seems to be Robert Kraft, who cannot to so, for obvious reasons. But surely there are other well respected people who must see the self destruct mode which the league is currently entering and take action as soon as the situation cools down a bit.

lurker1965 · Jan 29, 2015

This has gone from just random stupidity to the league using leaks to try and get the "suspect" to slip up. It is a a tactic so common it is on cop shows.

It means the NFL (re: Goodell) has already decided upon an adversarial relationship with Robert Kraft. Why? I can't say. Is it because he is Jewish? Can't say for sure.

Rob0729 · Jan 29, 2015

I think we need to declare war with the media as much as Goodell. It is embarrassing how the media is outright lying to hang the Patriots. I'll point to two examples:

The NY Daily News claims they deflated 12 balls in 40 seconds and kept flashing a pressure gauge to show that they measured the balls before and after to say that they did show they deflated each ball to the reported levels the Pats' ball rumored to be below regulation PSI. Except if you watch the video closely, the guy doing to experiment clearly missed deflating two footballs (the ball farthest from him right next to the bathroom wall and the one closest to him the nose of the ball is pointing at him if you want to watch/rewatch the video to see it). But how did those two balls lose pressure if they are claiming all the balls deflated to the level they claim? I have yet to see anyone other than me pick that up and all the other media outlets are using this bogus experiment as the smoking gun.
The blind test with Mark Brunell and Jerome Bettis. They both claimed that they could tell the difference by just holding the ball in the normal way but it clear the only way they could tell was by conducting CPR on the football by pressing their thumbs at the center of the ball hard to see the pressure. But Brunell said he could easily just tell how he gripped the ball when he is throwing it even though ESPN's own Sports Science segment says it would be near impossible for a QB to tell the difference by just holding the ball.

And then there is the hyperbole of the media. Greg Doyel of the Indy Star just compared this to Black Sox Scandal and saying it is on par. Mark Brunell (yes, him again) crying because he thinks Brady lied in his press conference. Then there is the Ray Lewis stupidity. Or Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk using this to whine about their Super Bowl again. And let's not forget the media totally ignoring current and former players who say this is nothing or everyone does it for the ones who think the Pats committed the greatest crime against humanity.

People talk about how Kraft threw down the gauntlet to Goodell to either put up or shut up. But people ignore the fact that the media has also thrown down the gauntlet too and told Goodell to either suspend Belichick and/or Brady for at least a year or all hell will come down on you.

Kontradiction · Jan 29, 2015

TommyBrady12 said:
Do you think the fix will be in for seattle to win on sunday?

No. Goodell loses Kraft's support and he loses his job.

PatsFanSince74 · Jan 29, 2015

I think Goodell is incompetent to do his job and is so far in over his head as the CEO of a major media and entertainment enterprise, with all the attendant pressures and politics, as to be laughable, were it not so dangerous to the reputations and well-being of others. If he were the CEO of an honest company, an independent Board would have tossed his ass on the street a while ago.

But, I don't think he's out to "get" the Patriots in this case. Why? Because Kraft helped him get his job, saved his bacon at the time of the CBA, stood up for him early when he was bungling the Rice case and is among and carries a lot of weight with the handful of owners who really run the league (the Mara's, Rooney's, Jerry Jones, as examples).

What I DO think he will do is protect Kensil, Irsay, the Colts bench and anybody else's hands who are all over this mess to avoid embarrassing the League any further. He can't touch Irsay, but, if Kensil did what it seems he did, I think he will quietly retire or move on by the end of the year.

So, the bottom line is that I believe that the "directed verdict" will stop just short of completely exonerating the Patriots and be "inconclusive," with a new set of protocols for the inflation and handling of gameday balls.

Yes, the system is corrupt...but what system isn't when a multi-billion dollar enterprise is on the line?

Galeb · Jan 29, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
I think Goodell is incompetent to do his job and is so far in over his head as the CEO of a major media and entertainment enterprise, with all the attendant pressures and politics, as to be laughable, were it not so dangerous to the reputations and well-being of others. If he were the CEO of an honest company, an independent Board would have tossed his ass on the street a while ago.

But, I don't think he's out to "get" the Patriots in this case. Why? Because Kraft helped him get his job, saved his bacon at the time of the CBA, stood up for him early when he was bungling the Rice case and is among and carries a lot of weight with the handful of owners who really run the league (the Mara's, Rooney's, Jerry Jones, as examples).

What I DO think he will do is protect Kensil, Irsay, the Colts bench and anybody else's hands who are all over this mess to avoid embarrassing the League any further. He can't touch Irsay, but, if Kensil did what it seems he did, I think he will quietly retire or move on by the end of the year.

So, the bottom line is that I believe that the "directed verdict" will stop just short of completely exonerating the Patriots and be "inconclusive," with a new set of protocols for the inflation and handling of gameday balls.

Yes, the system is corrupt...but what system isn't when a multi-billion dollar enterprise is on the line?

If Goodell was merely trying to protect his cronies, he could have squashed this in the beginning. He chose to allow this witch-hunt and figured Kraft would just roll over. Kraft made a stand and now the NFL office has gone full ****** trying to protect itself.

JR4 · Jan 29, 2015

One reason they may be waiting until after the SuperBowl may be Tom Brady.
Maybe investigators have been told not to interfere with Tom' getting ready for the Superbowl.
So to interview while PATs were installing the game plan was out. That's 4 days. Now
in Arizona the first few days was possible but would then cause a lot of distraction in the
media. In fact any time this week is just not a good time because of the media reaction and
the distraction effect. Also even if they squeezed in a Tom interview what's to say they would not
need a second or third interview. After all of this consideration they probably just decided to wait until after
the super bowl and let the media hype die down a little. For the most part this seems to be working.
Yes talking heads still mention it somewhat but not talking as much as they were doing earlier in the week.
I know this a rose colored way of looking at it but just maybe it is reality.

As far as the ref calls. Refs make bad calls/non calls in every game. Even if this number highly favors the
Hawks there is nothing that can be done. I hope to enjoy the game outside of these bad calls/non Calls.
I just hope the refs will not be a deciding factor and hope your speculation is unfounded.

patfanken · Jan 29, 2015

Rob0729 said:
I think we need to declare war with the media as much as Goodell. It is embarrassing how the media is outright lying to hang the Patriots. I'll point to two examples:

The NY Daily News claims they deflated 12 balls in 40 seconds and kept flashing a pressure gauge to show that they measured the balls before and after to say that they did show they deflated each ball to the reported levels the Pats' ball rumored to be below regulation PSI. Except if you watch the video closely, the guy doing to experiment clearly missed deflating two footballs (the ball farthest from him right next to the bathroom wall and the one closest to him the nose of the ball is pointing at him if you want to watch/rewatch the video to see it). But how did those two balls lose pressure if they are claiming all the balls deflated to the level they claim? I have yet to see anyone other than me pick that up and all the other media outlets are using this bogus experiment as the smoking gun.

The blind test with Mark Brunell and Jerome Bettis. They both claimed that they could tell the difference by just holding the ball in the normal way but it clear the only way they could tell was by conducting CPR on the football by pressing their thumbs at the center of the ball hard to see the pressure. But Brunell said he could easily just tell how he gripped the ball when he is throwing it even though ESPN's own Sports Science segment says it would be near impossible for a QB to tell the difference by just holding the ball.

And then there is the hyperbole of the media. Greg Doyel of the Indy Star just compared this to Black Sox Scandal and saying it is on par. Mark Brunell (yes, him again) crying because he thinks Brady lied in his press conference. Then there is the Ray Lewis stupidity. Or Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk using this to whine about their Super Bowl again. And let's not forget the media totally ignoring current and former players who say this is nothing or everyone does it for the ones who think the Pats committed the greatest crime against humanity.

People talk about how Kraft threw down the gauntlet to Goodell to either put up or shut up. But people ignore the fact that the media has also thrown down the gauntlet too and told Goodell to either suspend Belichick and/or Brady for at least a year or all hell will come down on you.

Unfortunately, Rob, what you have done here is called "whistling against the wind" The truth or justice have no place here. Its a witch hunt plan and simple.

I just read a piece where some Cinci guys claim the stats reveal that the reason the Pats fumble so infrequently is that they are deflating the balls. For proof they give BJGE - He never fumbled in 550 times with the Pats, but fumbled 5 times in the same number of snaps. See that's proof they were cheating.

The scary thing is that the media has made this into an actual scandal. ONE psi has been reduced the equivalent of the "black sox", Steroids, and point shaving. It would be laughable if I wasn't watching it play out myself. I weep for this country that it has become SOOOOOOO stupid that it didn't reject this entire thing out of hand. Instead it worsens almost every day. If I were a dictator in training I'd be leaping with joy knowing that if this country would buy this crap, they'd buy ANYTHING.

I think it was Ben Franklin who once said (but I could be wrong) that no one will ever come and take our democracy away from us. Rather we will be the ones to give it away.

Koma · Jan 29, 2015

Kulko said:
Well regardless if this is a deliberate attack or just plain old stupidity, Anybody who allows the current proceedings happen, should be immediately fired.

Currently the NFL allow the media to actively question the validity of the highlight of its league year, and in case of a certain pats win, the validity of its worlds champion, for absolutely no apparent reason. The way this is handled is below NHL-Level of incompetence, which should make the owners think very hard, if they want to go forward in the current setting.

Unfortunately the only Owner with the drive and the standing to solve this situation seems to be Robert Kraft, who cannot to so, for obvious reasons. But surely there are other well respected people who must see the self destruct mode which the league is currently entering and take action as soon as the situation cools down a bit.

I don't know what's going on behind the scenes in the league office. It could be a power struggle. It could be incompetence. Hopefully, someone in the media is wondering about this too and is looking into it (after they're done filing their negative Patriots story for the day.)

When we look back on this situation, the ridiculousness of the alleged violation and the overreaction by the media will stand out, but the lack of any meaningful action by the league will be just as significant.

We are nearly 2 weeks into this story and Goodell has been MIA. The sum total of the league's public response has been 2 press releases, one last Friday and one from Monday. There have been numerous leaks, though, most of them damaging to the Patriots.

I think about David Stern and how he squashed the Tim Donaghy story. That was something that really could have threatened the integrity of the league but the NBA dealt with it effectively enough that it's barely mentioned anymore. Could Goodell handle a story about Jerome Boger or Ed Hochuli gambling on NFL games the same way? He can't even control a story about a potential 1-2 PSI difference in some footballs.

PatsFanSince74 · Jan 29, 2015

Galeb said:
If Goodell was merely trying to protect his cronies, he could have squashed this in the beginning. He chose to allow this witch-hunt and figured Kraft would just roll over. Kraft made a stand and now the NFL office has gone full ****** trying to protect itself.

I think it was still mostly a matter of incompetence. But, since neither of us knows one way or the other, I can't say that you are wrong.

PP2 · Jan 29, 2015

1960Pats said:
I don't think we need a tin foil hat to see it that way. I like that one better than the Goody is out to get us theory. Goody isn't smart enough to pull this off. This is being done by someone with a serious bug up his ass about the Pats.

It's being done by someone or some group who really wants Goodell out. I don't think it really was about the balls, but giving Kraft the impression that it's Goodell who is hanging him out to dry.

By embarrassing Kraft and the Patriots and engineering a rift between Kraft and the NFL front office, someone or this group has effectively managed to get Goodell to lose one of his biggest supporters.

Look for him to step down in the offseason.

Blizzzard · Jan 29, 2015

I'm glad that some people have come around lately.
I have been toasted in the past for my suggestion that a games outcome could be swayed to a "best case scenario for the league" outcome by intentionally being inconsistent or inequitable in penalty calls.

My observation has been pointed out in other threads. I hope I am wrong with what I have potentially observed, but the fear persists to the point I feel the same as Ken here.

Whether we are right, wrong, have gone nuts or have achieved clarity on the subject, the topic deserves this discussion.

Edit* a similar discussion can be found here! as well as a list of what I perceive to be "more than coincidence" Super Bowl wins and story lines.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...-are-you-about-the-refs.1115729/#post-4096347

turkeyneck · Jan 29, 2015

I think this is a battle between Kensil and his allies (Irsay, Harbaugh, Pagano,...) and Belichick and the Krafts. Goodell is frozen like a deer in the headlights. He can't figure out what to do and is hoping that Wells rescues him. That's a lifeline, btw, that I think the Krafts engineered for him. I think the Krafts insisted on bringing in someone like Wells to forstall Goodell imposing his usual bull in a china shop 'solution'.

PatsWickedPissah · Jan 29, 2015

I for one hope I do not come to the eventual conclusion that the league refs did the Patriots in in the SB.

Because if so, for a rational person then what is the point of watching ANY NFL game ever?

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