Folks, We have a Legitimate Hero in Our Midst

Unfortunately it doesnt stop king from writing crap

Now the question is how cooperative the Patriots and their employees will be. Key point: Wells did not have subpoena power in the Miami case. He won’t have it here. Belichick and owner Robert Kraft have pledged their full cooperation. But how full is full? Will they allow the league to see text-message records? Will pertinent employees such as the locker-room attendant in question or ball boys working the sidelines voluntarily give data records to Wells’ team investigating the case? If there is some culpability found, and the Patriots were found to have blocked access to some information pertinent to the case, the league could come down harder on them if the league felt it was stonewalled.

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SVN said:

Unfortunately it doesnt stop king from writing crap

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This is the set-up. There is no amount of information to exonerate. The proof of guilt will always be on some evidence they don't have.

I'm pretty sure the Patriots can't give text message records out. They're not the FBI, they don't own employees text messages. And if they asked me for my text messages I'd tell them to **** off, as I'm sure everyone else will. So presto- proof they're up to no good, they won't submit to an anal cavity search. What are they hiding?

convertedpatsfan said:

It's just pathetic that the expert analysis on football issues is coming from fans while media "experts" like King and Company are yelling out opinions first, then reporting facts way later only after they can't deny them.

It's why I refer to them as sports writers, not journalists. There's no hint of journalism going on here.

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What ia really damning is the NFL not doing this same calculation a week ago. And as Matt Chatham points out the way the rule is written is plain stupid.

PBPF knocked it outta the Park. The column would have been part of the Glazer story frenzy, but instead our intrepid poster Explained Coherently to King the issue of how the balls could have become deflated. King is widely read and will be part of the NBC team at the SB.

Great Job by PBPF!

SVN said:

Unfortunately it doesnt stop king from writing crap

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See, that's exactly why you "King's not that bad" people are totally wrong. His mouth is firmly attached to Goodell's azz and always has been. He is a league shill and cares way more about access than truth.

Peter included a typo, "11.43" when it is really "11.34" but the message is the same. I made the typo myself in my first email, then corrected it. He was very personable. He said that he shadowed a Ref crew in pregame preps a couple of years ago and they have a lot of things to do. He thought that it DOES make sense that they could approve a football that was 0.1 or 0.2 psi too high or too low as being good enough, not taking the time to add or take away 0.1 or 0.2 psi. He also liked the Carnegie Mellon video & experiment, and we discussed that a good while.

kennyb said:

Amazing stuff. Tell him that colder Colts balls at first pressure test would explain why they didn't lose pressure.

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Right, if the Colts balls came off the bus and went to the refs locker they would already be cold, meanwhile the Pats balls had been in the locker room all week so would have acclimated to 70ish degrees. Even if the Colts balls were taken off the bus into the stadium for a period of time before they were tested it is safe to assume they wouldn't have achieved total equilibrium, so while they may have some drop at 1/2 time it wouldn't be the same as the Pats balls.

Another thing about these calculations that is bothering me a little bit, why is everyone using the kickoff time temp? Shouldn't it be the 1/2 time temp?

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

Peter included a typo, "11.43" when it is really "11.34" but the message is the same. I made the typo myself in my first email, then corrected it. He was very personable. He said that he shadowed a Ref crew in pregame preps yeats ago and they have a lot of things to do. He thought that it DOES make sense that they could approve a football that was 0.1 or 0.2 high or low as being good enough, not taking the time to add or take away 0.1 or 0.2 psi. He also liked the Carnegie Mellon video & experiment, and we discussed that a good while.

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Thank you. Just...thank you.

If you ever visit the Raleigh-Durham area of NC (e.g., to give a talk at UNC/Duke etc), please contact me so I can buy you a beer, cigar, or just hang out. Love that you took the initiative. Like x 1000

fnordcircle said:

First - major props to PBPF for all this work and for talking to King.

As an aside, I've always liked King, for the most part. He's written some of the most glowing stuff about the Pats that anyone has.

Say what you want about the guy - but the reality is that if he had an agenda he never would have bothered following up.

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He also did write this 2 days ago...

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human

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Bobsyouruncle said:

This is the set-up. There is no amount of information to exonerate. The proof of guilt will always be on some evidence they don't have.

I'm pretty sure the Patriots can't give text message records out. They're not the FBI, they don't own employees text messages. And if they asked me for my text messages I'd tell them to **** off, as I'm sure everyone else will. So presto- proof they're up to no good, they won't submit to an anal cavity search. What are they hiding?

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What text messages would they be looking for anyway? "Hey Bill; ur balls r on the way, just stopped to ****. I'll let u know when I'm done."

PK is pretty sharp. In discussing the Carnegie Mellon/headsmartlabs video & experiment, he asked me about the water-soaking routine. I said that frankly it may have been overkill to dunk them in water, but I am not sure, and that I wasn't as convinced about that part of the argument as I am about the truth of temperature/pressure properties of gasses.

PK commented, wisely I think after reflection, that the Carnegie Mellon/headsmartlabs team used brand new NFL footballs and that, out of the box, he knows from personal experience that such footballs have a waxy sheen on them, the slick coating that all QBs hate. It is this sheen that is worn off in ball prep. He proposed that a new ball with the waxy coating (that probably repels water) should absorb less water than a prepped football would. Thus if anything the waterlogging effect with an actual game ball might be bigger than what they saw. I hadn't thought about that part of it, but I think he was 100% right.

Glad King took the time to view the Head smart vid and visit their site.

How long before ESPN realizes they need to talk to scientists about this, not ex players?

RelocatedPatFan said:

Plus it was 51 degrees at start, what would the temperature be by halftime (or shortly before halftime/effective temperature where the balls could reach equilibrium - same temperature inside and outside I assume is what is meant by that)

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Weather Underground's data says it was probably 49 degrees at halftime, but I didn't want anyone to think I was biasing the analysis, so I used 51 instead. It is very likely that the rain falling on the field (and on the footballs, of course) was quite a bit colder than the surface air temperature too. Raindrops usually form at altitude where it is colder and they are warmed up as they fall. Of course they often reach the ground colder than the surface air temp. Again though, I didn't want anyone to say that ANY of the numbers were fudged. that is also why I used 72 degrees and not 75, like some others have.

neuronet said:

How long before ESPN realizes they need to talk to scientists about this, not ex players?

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Their sports science guy could replicate this HOWEVER it isn't part of the ESPN Sports Narrative, Why no Tedy B commenting this Sunday on the ProBowl pregame knows more about TFB than the rest of the hacks and the murder do.

Fencer said:

There's an important side lesson here -- a lot of media guys like Peter King try to do good work. Complain about their success rate all you want, but if they put in serious effort to do their best, as I believe King does, some of the personal insults are unfair.

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Definitely. He is no Ian O'Connor.

PBPF, you are incredible! Were you totally astonished to be contacted by King? I mean, I kind of have to know details here. I am proud to be a part of this board and I know that without having to even glance at my TV and radio, I get all the good stuff here. Nice to be proved right.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

PK commented, wisely I think after reflection, that the Carnegie Mellon/headsmartlabs team used brand new NFL footballs and that, out of the box, he knows from personal experience that such footballs have a waxy sheen on them, the slick coating that all QBs hate. It is this sheen that is worn off in ball prep. He proposed that a new ball with the waxy coating (that probably repels water) should absorb less water than a prepped football would. Thus if anything the waterlogging effect with an actual game ball might be bigger than what they saw. I hadn't thought about that part of it, but I think he was 100% right.

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As I mentioned before, the IGL assumes a perfectly rigid container. The container in this case is the leather, the stitches and the laces. Anything that reduces the rigidity of the container will lower the pressure. As we all know, soaking leather makes it softer and stretchier. For this reason, in the conditions prevailing in the AFCCG we can expect that the ball pressure will be lower than predicted by IGL calculations.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

Weather Underground's data says it was probably 49 degrees at halftime, but I didn't want anyone to think I was biasing the analysis, so I used 51 instead. It is very likely that the rain falling on the field (and on the footballs, of course) was quite a bit colder than the surface air temperature too. Raindrops usually form at altitude where it is colder and they are warmed up as they fall. Of course they often reach the ground colder than the surface air temp. Again though, I didn't want anyone to say that ANY of the numbers were fudged. that is also why I used 72 degrees and not 75, like some others have.

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PBPF = MVP

That is all.

Scientists all over the world are trying to figure out the PSI of these balls, instead of conducting needed research into the worlds ills, and all because a 16 year old kid decided to deflate 11 balls instead of taking a pee!