Toucher and Rich: Sources said the League approved under-inflated balls BEFORE GAME

At this point there are no facts and any and all leaks or information is suspect.

The superbowl will happen and some time late feb/early march Wells will have his report.

Rob still says the Pats will be punished and while they may not, they'll have enough ambiguous information for people to be able to make their own narrative.

Otherwords, no proof they did, no proof they didn't (though probably strongly leading to that side -- they didn't).

I just wonder if he'll be investigating the NFL leaks and will most likely have suggestions on how to maintain a proper chain with ball inflation/handling.

The NFL dun F'd up son...

vuudu said:

Is he always that obtuse? Toucher is stupid. I have never stayed at home to listen to them. What a stupid human being.

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Why does this ******* have even one listener? Has anything semi-intelligent ever emanated from this peabrain?

I don't know who these guys are and could have lived a happy life not knowing who these guys were.

RelocatedPatFan said:

At this point there are no facts and any and all leaks or information is suspect.

The superbowl will happen and some time late feb/early march Wells will have his report.

Rob still says the Pats will be punished and while they may not, they'll have enough ambiguous information for people to be able to make their own narrative.

Otherwords, no proof they did, no proof they didn't (though probably strongly leading to that side -- they didn't).

I just wonder if he'll be investigating the NFL leaks and will most likely have suggestions on how to maintain a proper chain with ball inflation/handling.

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I will say that if the League admits that they hand tested the balls prior to the game rather than testing with a gauge, this changes my thinking a bit about the punishment. I can still see the nominal fine ($25k range), but if they cannot say they confirmed that the balls were in the 12.5-13.5 PSI range.

Rob0729 said:

Toucher is being a moron. He is claiming this is worse that deflating them after they are tested by the refs. This is the same thing that Aaron Rodgers said he does. He claimed he tried to turn in over inflated balls to sneak by the refs. And the media said that was ok, but it is different than deflating them after they are measured.

It is ridiculous. If the Pats turned them in under inflated and the refs measured them with a gauge, they would have been declared under inflated and inflated to the proper PSI. No harm, no foul.

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The Toucher person is a moron who did not understand what the rest of the world CLEARLY HEARD BB SAY AT HIS SATURDAY PRESSER.

BB said something to the effect of 'we delivered the balls to the refs to be inflated up to 12.5 and whatever they did they did'.

The wording is just off the top of my head, but he clearly said that.

I'll try to get the actual text.

Rob0729 said:

I will say that if the League admits that they hand tested the balls prior to the game rather than testing with a gauge, this changes my thinking a bit about the punishment. I can still see the nominal fine ($25k range), but if they cannot say they confirmed that the balls were in the 12.5-13.5 PSI range.

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I really wonder if this is their only way out. they still have to detail their findings about this employee who went to the bathroom and follow the timeline for what may have happened. I wonder how detailed they will be with how the event was initiated and all results.

This needs to be very highly detailed and I want it to leave little doubt about any guilt or innocence.

shmessy said:

The Toucher person is a moron who did not understand what the rest of the world CLEARLY HEARD BB SAY AT HIS SATURDAY PRESSER.

BB said 'we delivered the balls to the refs to be inflated up to 12.5 and whatever they did they did'.

The wording is just off the top of my head, but he clearly said that.

I'll try to get the actual text.

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Here's the paragraph:

"When the footballs are delivered to the officials locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 PSI. What exactly they did, I don’t know. But for the purposes of our study, that’s what we did. We set them at 12.5. That’s at the discretion of the official, though. Regardless of what we ask for, it’s the official’s discretion to put them where he wants. Again, that’s done in a controlled climate. The footballs are prepared in our locker room, they’re delivered to the officials locker room, which is a controlled environment. Whatever we have here is what we have there. When the footballs go out on to the field into game conditions, whatever those conditions are, whether it’s hot and humid, whether it’s cold and damp, whether it’s cold and dry, whether it’s whatever it is, that’s where the footballs are played with, and that’s where the measurements would be different than what they are, possibly different, than what they are in a controlled environment. That’s what we found."

This Toucher character should be fired before noon.

This concerns me that if true the refs/league are going to be pissed they got exposed and will look to screw us in the Super Bowl. I think he's an idiot, but Kornheiser was just on Dennis and Callahan saying the league doesn't want the PATS to win.

I don't have much faith this is true, given the investigative incompetence we've seen so far it's possible the reasoning goes like this-

Balls are below 12.5!

If the Patriots didn't do it we know the refs did it!

Mystery solved!

We are dealing with morons here. If we prove the big sister wasn't a witch, then we know the little sister is.

I think it's entirely possible the refs don't care that much about getting every ball to the tenth of a degree accuracy when the pressure variance outside will swamp that accuracy, but until I see some variance from the expected pressure change (which has not been shown) there's no reason to condemn anyone for a murder where there is no dead body.

jlu52 said:

Why does this ******* have even one listener? Has anything semi-intelligent ever emanated from this peabrain?

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Toucher is awful. He brutalizes Adolfo (at least Rich sounds sympathetic to him, and generally doesn't pile on, Fred is just plain mean). Toucher screams and yells like a child if someone refutes a point of his, and he's constantly making the show about him.

I love Rich, I feel bad for Adolfo but he does roll with it well and his street-side interviews are awesome, and Wallick is bearable. Fred Toucher is just an awful person and terrible for that show.

Rob0729 said:

This may be why the League is dragging this out and smearing the Patriots with leaks. They know the Pats did nothing wrong by the letter of the law, but it makes the League look bad because they didn't do the proper pregame inspection of the balls prior to the game.

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I have contended since the middle of last week.. first the mediot from Indy is given information in the middle of the night, then Mort releases info on Mon nite @ 11:00 PM, Peter King posts a story @ 3:00 AM and the leaks go on..

The NFL is trying to turn this into a guilty in the press situation, while they really do not have much of anything.. except a kid took a leak.

The more this happens the more it sounds like entrapment, but the Pats will not allow themselves to be trapped.. they are refusing to play the game of Goodell..

hambone1818 said:

Toucher is awful. He brutalizes Adolfo (at least Rich sounds sympathetic to him, and generally doesn't pile on, Fred is just plain mean). Toucher screams and yells like a child if someone refutes a point of his, and he's constantly making the show about him.

I love Rich, I feel bad for Adolfo but he does roll with it well and his street-side interviews are awesome, and Wallick is bearable. Fred Toucher is just an awful person and terrible for that show.

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Compared to the other choices this is usually better, at least they can laugh at themselves and admit they are not a sports talk show.. they are a morning drive show.

They make me laugh..

Nobody did anything ****ing wrong. Goodell should put an end to this madness and just own up now. This is just going to be worst for him at the end. He's just digging his own grave even deeper every minute this continues to go on. What did they expect to happen? Have BB admit to something he didn't do?

WAIT ONE DAMN SECOND.

1) How do these "investigators" know the balls were under-inflated if the refs didn't measure?

2) If the refs DID measure and have the data, but simply signed off on 12.0, then that is on the refs and the refs alone.

Mv1029 said:

This concerns me that if true the refs/league are going to be pissed they got exposed and will look to screw us in the Super Bowl. I think he's an idiot, but Kornheiser was just on Dennis and Callahan saying the league doesn't want the PATS to win.

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Why screw the Pats?

The Pats didn't call for this investigation.

Here's the guy who did:

I'm pretty sure I heard Bill Belichick...and correct me if I am wrong...say when they turned the balls in they requested they be pumped to 12.5 PSI in his presser??

I did a double take but then I never heard the media make a big deal out of that...which I would assume they would...so thought I had misheard something.

Did anyone else hear that?

If they did send them in and asked for that to happen, and the refs didn't do it, then they have majorly ****ed this up.

Did the refs even check the balls at halftime? I wouldn't be surprised if nobody ever actually discovered a deflated ball.

Mv1029 said:

This concerns me that if true the refs/league are going to be pissed they got exposed and will look to screw us in the Super Bowl. I think he's an idiot, but Kornheiser was just on Dennis and Callahan saying the league doesn't want the PATS to win.

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just heard that. says it obvious with their well timed and frequent leaks....says we're in a no win situation. If we loose its "see, can't win without cheating" If we win, it's "couldn't get there without cheating" If we don't get punished, it will be " Goodell's got Kraft's back"
I just have an awful feeling that all of our energy is just being wasted here...that no matter what the Pats are going to be punished. The NFL has invested too much effort for them to admit they were wrong. What a shame.

DarrylS said:

Compared to the other choices this is usually better, at least they can laugh at themselves and admit they are not a sports talk show.. they are a morning drive show.

They make me laugh..

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Oh no doubt, I do want to add that I think they're the best am option by a mile and they keep it light with some good entertaining bits. I just really feel like Toucher is an anchor for them. I know Rich has said in the past that no one knows just how much Fred does for the show, etc, I'm sure he's a creative guy and he clearly has a mind like a sponge which I'm sure helps immensely. I just think he's a complete jackass and a legitimately mean person.