Twitter report: NFL investigation is more about NFL Officials, not Pats (updated)

Peachhead said:

Dr. Freud, did you slip?

Well that's what we get for hundreds of pages about balls.

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Can't believe you are splitting hairs over a guys spelling..

robertweathers said:

It really is interesting how some aspects of our society have evolved and some have not- 320+ years later.

If you go back and do some reading on the Salem Witch Trials, the characteristics are the same. Mass hysteria that reaches a fever pitch, fear, paranoia, extremism, false accusations and complete lack of regard in due process.

Amazing.

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We are still human, and human nature hasn't changed one whit.

PatsWickedPissah said:

RECORDS
They probably "measured" the balls although they may not have but let's say they did. All that the rules require is that the balls were @ or above 12.5 and below 13.6. Nothing for them to compare to. It's a football game not a lab.

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Examining the balls and checking for the correct pressure isn't exactly something that requires a lab environment. According to the NFL, this is their standard protocol, and they are claiming that this was done prior to the game. I posted the video that shows them sitting around with the pressure gauge, and placing the balls into the bag, etc. It's something that is done in every game.

This is the "baseline" standard that I am referring to, and obviously there needs to be one for the investigation to occur; otherwise, how do they know if the balls weren't already underinflated to begin with?

In other words, this conversation started with the suggestion that the NFL isn't going to put their refs in a questionable light, and I stand by this statement. While you may not agree with the thought that the refs go through a protocol prior to the matchup, I'm really not sure where our confusion lies in terms of misunderstanding each other?

ender24601 said:

I hope they are right. Do we know who Sharks of Vegas is/are and where they get their sources?

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They are a sports handicapping service which offers picks for their paid members (and apparently breaking news stories).

kennyb said:

I bet they took measurements. They didn't write them down but so what? The referees word is considered true.

The thing is if they WERE 12.5 then you would expect them to fall just as they did given temperature changes. So what difference does it make if they wrote down the numbers.

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I'd find it much more likely that they quickly checked the pressure of the balls, which they claim to do in each and every game. From the video that I posted from sports illustrated, it seemed to be a rather quick check, where they sat around and measured the air pressure prior to the balls they placed in the "official" bag. The whole process took very little time.

Either way, the NFL + the refs claim that they checked the balls, so I'm not sure why so many are attempting to spread the message that they didn't? Like I've said the whole time, I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see the NFL + the refs suddenly claiming that they only did the "charmin" test, and didn't even know if the balls were ready to play or not.

That thought is ludicrous to me--and nothing more than wishful thinking.

Patriotic Fervor said:

Pubic, or otherwise!

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Public's all we would know, at this point. I'm pretty sure the NFL hasn't done anything pubic on the issue of deflated footballs.

supafly said:

Couldn't agree more, TBS. One thing I'm not sure that I see the same as some other posters would be the manner in which it's unraveling--but yes, there have been new updates that have questioned some of the original findings, and that's good news.

For one example, many looked at the NFL's official confirmation that they are in the middle of an investigation on Friday as somehow meaning good news for us, and I just did not see it the same way myself.

Let's hope that new updates and information continue to come out, hopefully before mid-week, so the focus of the SB can go back to being righted again. That's the most frustrating aspect for me. All excitement that I had was immediately sucked away.

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I see your being your normal logical self Sup .

I have been emphatic this was pure bologny from second 1 of the "scandal". However, and this is probably due to some homerism, after Saturday's BB presser is when I became certain the clock had started on the tangible demise of this "scandal". It's not that I believe BB always speaks the truth -- he deliberately doesn't sometimes -- but IMHO there isn't a snowball's chance in hell BB would say the things he said at the PC if there was ambiguity of their provable guilt (the awful act it could have been too!!). And just as I suspected following the BB PC, a lemming here and a lemming there would start their doublespeak, questioning things, even back peddling. While it won't be all of them, and so far it hasn't been a lot of them, rumblings from the lemmings have started.

As far as this "scandal" in the grand scheme of the SB, while it may have robbed players and fans of some of the pre SB build up, it is heaven sent IMHO. If the 2014 Patriots are capable of defeating the Seahawks only with a 150% effort, this "scandal" should wring out every percent this team has mentally, physically, humanly capable of. I know if I am a Patriot player or coach, I just went through two grueling preparations and games, the effort paid off and I'm off to the biggest game there is, yet every where I look my effort is being questioned and disrespected, I'd be breathing friggin fire to get out on that SB field. I have to believe most every player and coach have that fire going, to some varying degree, within them. Of course whether it will be enough is something we'll find out in one week.....

Twentytothree said:

I think they did the "confirming" without much "inspecting". Agree that these are just weasel words.

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Absolutely, but the much more important question is whether or not you believe that the NFL is going to stand up and admit that their process of checking the balls (usually done w/ a pressure gauge) somehow wasn't done prior to last Sunday's game.

Some people seem to be pinning their hopes on this occurring, whereas I don't see that happening. The NFL isn't on trial here, nor are they going to be placed in that situation. According to them, the refs went through their standard check/protocol prior to the game, thus confirming that the balls were within the legal range. In my opinion, all of this "the refs are going to get blamed" talk is just silly--but we'll find out in the end.

I just want to see them state that there's no sufficient proof that the Pats did anything. That will be good enough for me.

So apparently brady said that the nfl has suspended the investigation right now and will restart after the superbowl.Is this a joke? Does kraft have any balls?

They have this hanging over their heads.Over some ****ing deflated footballs.I am pissed off

I just posted this elsewhere but i think it is worth being here too

My theory

The NFL mastermind had the balls being watched, cameras etc... The Colts gave them a ball that was 2 PSI short (after the Colts further deflated it?) NFL mastermind has the other 10 checked and they are 1 PSI low. NFL mastermind says we have those dastardly Patriots now, this will teach them to file a complaint against my Jets. Leaks story to Kravitz. NFL mastermind assumes they have it on tape because they taped the balls as part of the sting and NFL mastermind is totally clueless about science. NFL mastermind initiates investigation, goes to tape for smoking gun and of course it is not there. No reason to talk to Brady as NFL mastermind figures out what happened and is just playing for time. If NFL mastermind actually completed this in 2 - 3 days then everyone will know it was he behind it all.

NFL is desperately trying to make this go away now as they are the guilty party in cahoots with other teams. Congress needs to get involved.

supafly said:

ither way, the NFL + the refs claim that they checked the balls, so I'm not sure why so many are attempting to spread the message that they didn't? Like I've said the whole time, I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see the NFL + the refs suddenly claiming that they only did the "charmin" test, and didn't even know if the balls were ready to play or not.

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Do you not agree that, given everything that's unfolded here, the NFL should reasonably be expected to provide a precise, specific account of the extent of the pre-game testing and the results?

For example, since the media is using the Colts' balls as "evidence" to convict the New England Patriots of cheating, it's not enough for the NFL to say that the Pats and Colts balls "met the standard" in the pre-game inspection. At this point, given the nature of the leaks from "league source", the league must tell us exactly the starting inflation pressure of the Pats and the Colts game balls -- along with, of course, the precise and specific results of the half-time testing.

"League sources" put this stuff out there. Now, the league is obligated, IMO, to put it all out there.

TheBostonStraggler said:

I see your being your normal logical self Sup .

I have been emphatic this was pure bologny from second 1 of the "scandal". However, and this is probably due to some homerism, after Saturday's BB presser is when I became certain the clock had started on the tangible demise of this "scandal". It's not that I believe BB always speaks the truth -- he deliberately doesn't sometimes -- but IMHO there isn't a snowball's chance in hell BB would say the things he said at the PC if there was ambiguity of their provable guilt (the awful act it could have been too!!). And just as I suspected following the BB PC, a lemming here and a lemming there would start their doublespeak, questioning things, even back peddling. While it won't be all of them, and so far it hasn't been a lot of them, rumblings from the lemmings have started.

As far as this "scandal" in the grand scheme of the SB, while it may have robbed players and fans of some of the pre SB build up, it is heaven sent IMHO. If the 2014 Patriots are capable of defeating the Seahawks only with a 150% effort, this "scandal" should wring out every percent this team has mentally, physically, humanly capable of. I know if I am a Patriot player or coach, I just went through two grueling preparations and games, the effort paid off and I'm off to the biggest game there is, yet every where I look my effort is being questioned and disrespected, I'd be breathing friggin fire to get out on that SB field. I have to believe most every player and coach have that fire going, to some varying degree, within them. Of course whether it will be enough is something we'll find out in one week.....

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I was very confident while openly rooting for SEA to win on Sunday. Once we built up a sizable lead vs IND in the third quarter, I truly felt as though it was all falling into place quite nicely.

Now, after all of this, I'm just not as sure. I think it can go either way, but I'm not that hot on the added element which may/may not have allowed them to properly take advantage of last week. Here's hoping they come out and stay focused from here until late Sunday night.

supafly said:

I'd find it much more likely that they quickly checked the pressure of the balls, which they claim to do in each and every game. From the video that I posted from sports illustrated, it seemed to be a rather quick check, where they sat around and measured the air pressure prior to the balls they placed in the "official" bag. The whole process took very little time.

Either way, the NFL + the refs claim that they checked the balls, so I'm not sure why so many are attempting to spread the message that they didn't? Like I've said the whole time, I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see the NFL + the refs suddenly claiming that they only did the "charmin" test, and didn't even know if the balls were ready to play or not.

That thought is ludicrous to me--and nothing more than wishful thinking.

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I haven't read it in several days so I'm backtracking to say I don't remember exactly. With that in mind, did the NFL say the officials used a pressure gauge to measure the air pressure of the football prior to the game? Because I thought it read they "checked them before the game" -- then later saying 'they measured the air pressure of the footballs' during the game. Again am I wrong or was there that distinction between the two 'checking the football' events?
To me, again if my memory is correct, there is a big distinction. Given these press releases often come/filter through the PR/legal departments, it says a lot if they weren't identifying both times the air pressure was measured with a gauge that read X. Further, if it is shown the pre game football checking is a quick process (oh my, an informal one too???) coupled with no documenting of the readings (gasp! such lack of care for something that makes such a huge competitive difference!), the NFL has its boogeyman to wield its sword of righteous indignation at...themselves.

hwc said:

Do you not agree that, given everything that's unfolded here, the NFL should reasonably be expected to provide a precise, specific account of the extent of the pre-game testing and the results?

For example, since the media is using the Colts' balls as "evidence" to convict the New England Patriots of cheating, it's not enough for the NFL to say that the Pats and Colts balls "met the standard" in the pre-game inspection. At this point, given the nature of the leaks from "league source", the league must tell us exactly the starting inflation pressure of the Pats and the Colts game balls -- along with, of course, the precise and specific results of the half-time testing.

"League sources" put this stuff out there. Now, the league is obligated, IMO, to put it all out there.

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I agree that's how it should happen, although I'm not as certain that's how it's going to happen.

I don't trust Goodell for a second, and I just can't see them re-shifting the focus around on themselves, but let's hope that's how it happens.

TheBostonStraggler said:

I haven't read it in several days so I'm backtracking to say I don't remember exactly. With that in mind, did the NFL say the officials used a pressure gauge to measure the air pressure of the football prior to the game? Because I thought it read they "checked them before the game" -- then later saying 'they measured the air pressure of the footballs' during the game. Again am I wrong or was there that distinction between the two 'checking the football' events?
To me, again if my memory is correct, there is a big distinction. Given these press releases often come/filter through the PR/legal departments, it says a lot if they weren't identifying both times the air pressure was measured with a gauge that read X. Further, if it is shown the pre game football checking is a quick process (oh my, an informal one too???) coupled with no documenting of the readings (gasp! such lack of care for something that makes such a huge competitive difference!), the NFL has its boogeyman to wield its sword of righteous indignation at...themselves.

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You're correct. There were no distinctions made.

Again, don't get me wrong. I am not meaning to sound nearly as argumentative as I probably am. I just don't trust them, and I do not believe that they'll admit that there were no specific pressure readings that were recorded.

Believing all of that, I still find it difficult to believe that an investigation will be lingering for a long time in the future. I just can't see where it would go? I highly doubt they'll turn the gun on themselves by pointing out the incompetency of the referees. I just don't see that happening.

supafly said:

I'm not that hot on the added element which may/may not have allowed them to properly take advantage of last week. Here's hoping they come out and stay focused from here until late Sunday night.

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Holy krist....WHAT???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

WITH the supposedly "crooked" balls you fear so much , Brady and the Pats managed to sputter along with numerous misthrows/overthrows/underthrows and a TD costing INT while struglling to 17 points. AFTER the "true NFL inflation!!!!" balls were put in play in the 2nd half, the Pats scored TWENTY EIGHT POINTS a1nd Brady was near flawless. THIS leads you to BELIEVE that an "added element" allowed to Pats to take advantage???

OK, I'll play....calm your fears, Supa...the NFL will have TOTAL CONTROL of the balls from start to finish of the Super Bowl...just like they TOOK after the first half of the Indy game. Feel better now?

Joker said:

Holy krist....WHAT???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

WITH the supposedly "crooked" balls you fear so much , Brady and the Pats managed to sputter along with numerous misthrows/overthrows/underthrows and a TD costing INT while struglling to 17 points. AFTER the "true NFL inflation!!!!" balls were put in play in the 2nd half, the Pats scored TWENTY EIGHT POINTS a1nd Brady was near flawless. THIS leads you to BELIEVE that an "added element" allowed to Pats to take advantage???

OK, I'll play....calm your fears, Supa...the NFL will have TOTAL CONTROL of the balls from start to finish of the Super Bowl...just like they TOOK after the first half of the Indy game. Feel better now?

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You totally lost me.

I stated that I was super confident about the matchup prior to this story breaking (while rooting for SEA), and now I don't really care for the unexpected/added element of the potential distraction that it may have posed last week.

What the hell are you talking about?

Deus Irae said:

Public's all we would know, at this point. I'm pretty sure the NFL hasn't done anything pubic on the issue of deflated footballs.

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I agree, but that's the word the OP used for that kind of apology, so... ; )

supafly said:

You're correct. There were no distinctions made.

Again, don't get me wrong. I am not meaning to sound nearly as argumentative as I probably am. I just don't trust them, and I do not believe that they'll admit that there were no specific pressure readings that were recorded.

Believing all of that, I still find it difficult to believe that an investigation will be lingering for a long time in the future. I just can't see where it would go? I highly doubt they'll turn the gun on themselves.

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They won't turn the gun on themselves conspicuously or with honesty. I agree with that completely. But the proof of that happening will actually come, or not come, in the offseason. I'd be willing to bet a form is being worked on/considered that game officials will use to document pre game air pressure measurements. Certainly all informality will be completely gotten rid of. Don't they have to or, otherwise, isn't this significant cheating & competitive imbalance being taken very very unseriously by the NFL? I mean doesn't the NFL and it's officials care about the "integrity" of the game? Shame shame on them if they don't put stringent procedures of checking and documentation in place for measuring the air pressure

supafly said:

You totally lost me.

I stated that I was super confident about the matchup prior to this story breaking, and now I don't care for the unexpected/added element of the potential distraction.

What the hell are you talking about?

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My mistake then...I could swear you meant the "added element" of deflation in the first half.

'm not that hot on the added element which may/may not have allowed them to properly take advantage of last week

what is it that may have /may not have allowed them to take advantage?