Quick rehashing of spygate please?

Can someone please explain spygate in terms of the ridiculous NFL rules? Like it wasn't so much the taping but the position of the cameras? And it was a new rule or something? I'm fuzzy on the specifics and can't find what I'm looking for.
It would be nice to know cause people are hassling me

The new England Patriots were punished for breaking a rule in the NFL Operations Manual, and NOT any of the Game Rules. The Operations Manual specifies such things as the maximum highth of grass on the field, minimum/maximum areas of sidelines, where cameras (of all types) may and may not be placed, etc.

There is no rule against taping signals. The Patriots placed a camera on the sideline, rather than in an area reserved for those sorts of cameras, and Goodell came down hard on them.

You have to understand that Goodell was new to the job and looking to show how much of a hard @ss he was. He is also a former JEST executive type, so regardless of all the smiles & handshakes, there was no love lost between him & New England, especially since he remembers how Bob Kraft talked Coach Belichick OUT of the head coaching job of the New York Jets. He was setteling scores with New England, and establishing his foothold on the Commissioner's job.

The NFL NEVER, not ONCE, accused the Patriots of cheating in any way shape or form. Those accusations were made by mediots, reportards and other assorted h8ters looking to feel good about themselves.

That's it in a nutshell.

Yeap, it was legal then to tape signals just as its legal now.

Gwedd said:

The new England Patriots were punished for breaking a rule in the NFL Operations Manual, and NOT any of the Game Rules. The Operations Manual specifies such things as the maximum highth of grass on the field, minimum/maximum areas of sidelines, where cameras (of all types) may and may not be placed, etc.

There is no rule against taping signals. The Patriots placed a camera on the sideline, rather than in an area reserved for those sorts of cameras, and Goodell came down hard on them.

You have to understand that Goodell was new to the job and looking to show how much of a hard @ss he was. He is also a former JEST executive type, so regardless of all the smiles & handshakes, there was no love lost between him & New England, especially since he remembers how Bob Kraft talked Coach Belichick OUT of the head coaching job of the New York Jets. He was setteling scores with New England, and establishing his foothold on the Commissioner's job.

The NFL NEVER, not ONCE, accused the Patriots of cheating in any way shape or form. Those accusations were made by mediots, reportards and other assorted h8ters looking to feel good about themselves.

That's it in a nutshell.

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Further on this: the way the rule is worded makes it plausible -- I believe likely -- that BB simply interpreted its provisions as allowing what he did. There was no intent to deliberately circumvent or defy the league's directives. It came down to a difference in how the rule was interpreted. (I have the specifics of this somewhere but that's the gist of it.)

No way in hell should there EVER have been punishment of the severity levied by rookie commissioner R. Stokoe Goodell.

BB had a guy not secretly taping games. He would tape the defensive signals, then scoreboard presumably to sync them later. Back before in helmet comms obviously. Teams knew other teams try to steal signals so they could use several signals but only one was real. Or wrist bands, rendering it essentially useless. Regardless, they may have got a few signals deciphered for a later date. Or maybe they just wanted to make the team go through the effort of concealing and didn't check the tapes. Who knows.

In the 2006 off season Goody put out a memo that filming rules would be enforced. Alluding to filming signals. However filming signals was not against the rules. The only rules on filming we're where the camera could be, and even those didn't really make sense because teams filmed in places that didn't fit the rule and nobody ever cared. Also, Goodell cannot make rules, they must be made by the competition committee. So BB followed the same rule that always existed. The rule on not just filming but all electronics, was and is you cannot use them gameday for purity sake. Meaning you can make tapes, but not break them down, watch them, etc. You also can't text, or call and many other rules except using NFL stuff. He assumed that not breaking either the letter or spirit of the rule meant he was fine. He misjudged herr Goodell and Mangini.

So at the first game of the season BB had his film guy- not secretive, wearing Pats blue with a giant camera doing the usual and Mangini went to the NFL who promptly applied their incompetence to make if into the Lindburgh baby scandal.

We still have teams cameras on the sideline, but now it's apparently okay if they wear a green vest or something. Selective outrage

It is basically streamlined version of advanced scouting that every team does. See article below.
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=3394809&src=desktop&wjb

Bill's interpretation of the rule was that taping where he did was legal as long as the footage wasn't used in game. He had a good reason to believe that because that is exactly what the rule says to the letter. Unfortunately the league decided that the rule didn't really mean what it said.

patriot1136 said:

Can someone please explain spygate in terms of the ridiculous NFL rules? Like it wasn't so much the taping but the position of the cameras? And it was a new rule or something? I'm fuzzy on the specifics and can't find what I'm looking for.
It would be nice to know cause people are hassling me

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You pretty much nailed it, too badTroy Aikman doesn`t even know as much as you.

Better late than never... but I really wish Bill was this passionate about spygate 7 years ago and said what he said today back then...

Couldn't have hurt.

sb1 said:

Better late that never... but I really wish Bill was this passionate about spygate 7 years ago and said what he said today back then...

Couldn't have hurt.

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As I said in another thread, it would have been so EASY for BB to name names, point fingers, but he is too classy for that.10xs the Man than the hater Mediots will ever be.

If I recall, right before the season the Pats were busted. The NFL sent out a memo to all the teams to stop taping signals, so it was not only the Pats who were doing it. IMO the Pats did it vs the Jets not because they tried to break the rules, but it was because the Pats were pissed the Jets were doing it to them. Like BB said it was done in front of 80,000 people, so the Pats probably didn't think it was a big deal.

There is a page on Spygate but together by a Patriots fan, it used to be on this site, but now I can't find it

gmtaxi27 said:

If I recall, right before the season the Pats were busted. The NFL sent out a memo to all the teams to stop taping signals, so it was not only the Pats who were doing it. IMO the Pats did it vs the Jets not because they tried to break the rules, but it was because the Pats were pissed the Jets were doing it to them. Like BB said it was done in front of 80,000 people, so the Pats probably didn't think it was a big deal.

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Memo came out on Sept 6, 2006, a year ahead of getting busted. In the interim both the Jets and Phins had taped the Patriots, and the NFL didn't care, which to my mind takes significant power away from the memo.

Thanks for the recap. At times I become confused with the blatant criticism aimed at the Patriots. Those critics include former players or coaches who are now in the media. How is it, that no one ever brings up the Denver Broncos whose actual "CHEATING" contributed to winning two world championships? Going over the salary cap is more of a competitive advantage than camera placement. Am I wrong, or am I missing something?

sb1 said:

Better late than never... but I really wish Bill was this passionate about spygate 7 years ago and said what he said today back then...

Couldn't have hurt.

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He was muzzled by Kraft to protect his buddy Goodell who overstepped his bounds.

49ers cheated the salary cap too. Jerry Rice can go **** himself.

Pretty good summary, but you left out a couple crucial dates-facts (hopefully I got them right below) that make the whole punishment even more absurd.

Bobsyouruncle said:

BB had a guy not secretly taping games. ..... Who knows.

In the 2006 off season {that is Sep 2006}Goody put out a memo that filming rules would be enforced. Alluding to filming signals. However filming signals was not against the rules. The only rules on filming we're where the camera could be, ......He misjudged herr Goodell and Mangini.

{during the 2006 season the fish proclaim after a win on network tv that they had audio tape of TB line calls and that is why they pitched a shut out. Later (in a PLAYOFF game I believe) Jesters are caught by Pats filming from illegal location in Foxboro. In both these incidents--no NFL punishment or notice taken}

So at the first game of the {2007} season BB had his film guy- not secretive, wearing Pats blue with a giant camera doing the usual and Mangini {I think Mangini actually later said it wasn't so much him as the gm-owner at the time and he never expected what happened} went to the NFL who promptly applied their incompetence to make if into the Lindburgh baby scandal.

....Selective outrage

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So the fact that NFL was enforcing a 14 month old rule that they had refused to acknowledge in two events by pats opponents makes it all the more curious/absurd.

sb1 said:

Bill's interpretation of the rule was that taping where he did was legal as long as the footage wasn't used in game. He had a good reason to believe that because that is exactly what the rule says to the letter. Unfortunately the league decided that the rule didn't really mean what it said.

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I'm drawn like a moth to a flame by this topic...

The bolded part is exactly correct. Belichick took the rule/memo as "you can film, but you can't use it during a game." When they handed down the punishment, Goodell said it meant "you can't film from the sidelines at all."

Two more thoughts on this:

- When that Jets fan filed his frivolous lawsuit about this, the NFL attorney used the argument that the rule/memo was open to interpretation as part of it's defense.

- We know from Matt Walsh's interviews that he retained the film he shot for the entire game and only gave it someone else after the game. This is what he said in his NY Times interview and it's what he told Goodell and Specter when he met with them. There's even a line in the diatribe Specter submitted to the Congressional record that states Walsh gave people his tapes only after the game was over. In Belichick's interview with Armen Keteyian, he maintained that the tapes were never used during a game.

The notion that the Patriots were taking tapes of the defensive signals, deciphering them, and then feeding that information to Brady during games isn't supported by any evidence beyond what people think might have happened. Even Walsh, who had plenty of other negative things to say about the Patriots, never mentioned anyone doing that or hearing of any plans to do that with the tapes.

And, some of us (very miniscule minority) who refuse to use the word 'spy' and instead call it 'camera-gate', were elated when BB pointed out the ridiculous feature of this incident happening in front of 80k fans.

OP: in case you haven't yet, please see below for link to a truly fantastic sit-down interview BB gave to CBS back then. A must-see for every Pats fan.

And then, read the two links that clearly break down what that the issue was and how we were unfairly targetted.

Good luck!



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...pygate-punishing-success-and-promoting-parity

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1061258-fired-up-setting-the-record-straight-on-spygate

A non-Polaroid style camera was placed in an area Goodell didn't like it being placed.