Physics department chair at BC: weather alone could easily deflate ball from 12.5 to 10.5 psi

wy125 said:

I think these calculations are all correct. However, I haven't seen any information that tells the specifics of the initial and halftime measurements. Do we know for sure that the initial measurements were indoor and the halftime ones were outdoors? Also I can't believe they pumped up the deflated balls and used them in the second half--why destroy the evidence? The nfl will look pretty stupid if this turns out that the initial measurements were indoors while the subsequent ones were outside.

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Yup. The location/temperature of the inflation/re-inflation of both sets of balls is key to interpreting out what actually happened, as well as whether the colts knew in advance that balls would be checked.

The psi rule is screwed up because it totally ignores the effect of weather on pressure by not specifying the temperatures at which that 12.5-13.5 psi is supposed to be met.

I think negligence by both the game refs and the patriots is the most likely explanation.

The NFL already looks pretty stupid, but I'm sure they can manage to look even more dumb. Not sure about the mediots, though. They're already scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I think I was the 1st to cite Boyle's Law as an explanation way back Monday AM when I 1st logged on to see this fiasco

<a href="http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...here-we-go-again.1115247/page-23#post-4075733">Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again</a>

Also mentioned lack of calibration for any pressure gauges.

Also stated that Kraft could easily hire an easy controlled experiment with NFL footballs and temperature, humidity, etc. in any of hundreds of local temperature chambers.

Why is the $$$ NFL so butt ignorant?

PatsWickedPissah said:

I think I was the 1st to cite Boyle's Law as an explanation way back Monday AM when I 1st logged on to see this fiasco

<a href="http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...here-we-go-again.1115247/page-23#post-4075733">Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again</a>

Also mentioned lack of calibration for any pressure gauges.

Also stated that Kraft could easily hire an easy controlled experiment with NFL footballs and temperature, humidity, etc. in any of hundreds of local temperature chambers.

Why is the $$$ NFL so butt ignorant?

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Not to mention (though others already have) the very act of measuring reduces pressure.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I think I was the 1st to cite Boyle's Law as an explanation way back Monday AM when I 1st logged on to see this fiasco

<a href="http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...here-we-go-again.1115247/page-23#post-4075733">Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again</a>

Also mentioned lack of calibration for any pressure gauges.

Also stated that Kraft could easily hire an easy controlled experiment with NFL footballs and temperature, humidity, etc. in any of hundreds of local temperature chambers.

Why is the $$$ NFL so butt ignorant?

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They're not, they just have different priorities. You were looking for the truth, they were looking for a witch. Their failure to find a witch will just lead them to conclude witches are really tricky.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I think I was the 1st to cite Boyle's Law as an explanation way back Monday AM when I 1st logged on to see this fiasco

<a href="http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...here-we-go-again.1115247/page-23#post-4075733">Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again</a>

Also mentioned lack of calibration for any pressure gauges.

Also stated that Kraft could easily hire an easy controlled experiment with NFL footballs and temperature, humidity, etc. in any of hundreds of local temperature chambers.

Why is the $$$ NFL so butt ignorant?

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Good question. Question is why isn't Kraft doing that experiment? Plenty of people have done it from their own homes and shown it explains the psi drop. Will the NFL? Or will they continue to ignore?

The other shoe to drop is the November accusation. If that turns out to be false (I expect - as it makes no sense for the league to sit on this for months, and makes no sense that if they alerted the Pats they continue the practice) - then the notion this deflation is a SOP for the Pats flies out the window, and the science of it becomes even harder to ignore.

Bobsyouruncle said:

They're not, they just have different priorities. You were looking for the truth, they were looking for a witch. Their failure to find a witch will just lead them to conclude witches are really tricky.

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"Ah! But the strawberries. That's...that's where I had them!"

What scares me is that evidence will be constructed to fit the preconceived belief that cheating occurred, even though falsifying evidence is itself cheating.

So, they hear weather might be an explanation, all of a sudden both teams' balls were tested and only one was low. But were they really both tested? Or is it just a better narrative than "oops, nothing to see here" when the mob has already brandished pitchforks and lit torches?

Face it, somebody's gonna hang, whether or not a crime really happened.

Other factors mentioned in various science blogs:

Pumping footballs increases temperature. The initial starting point inside a pumped up football could have been almost double room temp (130 degrees not 70).

Condensation of water vapor by the 50 degree outdoor temperature removes it as a source of vapor pressure removing another 0.5 psi.

The temperature of freshly fallen rain is less than ambient air pressure as it is falling from a higher, colder altitude. A wet football could be colder than the air around it.

This only matters of course if the Colts balls were pumped up in a colder outdoor location and the Patriots balls were pumped indoors (though no sauna is necessary to produce the observed changes)

The problem with all these experiments is that we don't have the starting and ending temperatures. If the Colts started at the same PSI as the Pats but didn't drop then someone deflated the balls.

Until the PSI from pregame are released these experiments don't help because we don't know the Colts numbers and drop, if any

Colts are irrelevant. FOCUS on the issue.
Physics states that if Pats set their balls indoors at room temp to around 12.5 psi they're gonna lose over a psi after being outside. Could even drop below std if set at 13.5. Initial temperature and psi is the key.

These experiments will be done on the NFL pregame shows. Can't wait.

Both Belicheck and Brady did more damage IMO yesterday than if they didn't speak out. With the exception of New England the rest of the country thinks Belicheck and Brady are lying according to a nationwide poll..

Brewskies said:

Both Belicheck and Brady did more damage IMO yesterday than if they didn't speak out. With the exception of New England the rest of the country thinks Belicheck and Brady are lying according to a nationwide poll..

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Once the pregame shows show the demonstrations of the PSI dropping like in all these videos, this makes the NFL and press look like total laughing stocks. It was only after these press conferences that 99% of the people began to open their eyes to this as a possibility.

mosi said:

Thats the point! Basic science says that both team balls should have dropped below the minimal amount but the Colts balls did not! Their balls were probably over-inflatted.

I don't know why this is so complicated. I think we have become a stupid nation. Not only this, but you can test the hypothesis very easily. All it takes is some balls by the NFL. Pun intended!

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My response to this has been to ask what cop show ends their investigation with a question. My theory is two fold. The Colt ball boy may have hung out near a space heater and the Colt balls were remeasured after the Patriot balls and had more time to reacclimatize to the room temp they got remeasured at.

All of that is just a theory. I, and you, do not know why the Colt balls were unaffected. I say we find the answer - what say you?

That usually gets a "Cheatriots homer" reply.

lurker1965 said:

My response to this has been to ask what cop show ends their investigation with a question. My theory is two fold. The Colt ball boy may have hung out near a space heater and the Colt balls were remeasured after the Patriot balls and had more time to reacclimatize to the room temp they got remeasured at.

All of that is just a theory. I, and you, do not know why the Colt balls were unaffected. I say we find the answer - what say you?

That usually gets a "Cheatriots homer" reply.

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Where did the NFL ever say in their statement that the Colts balls were tested at halftime or there after? It does not.

Dr Pain said:

Where did the NFL ever say in their statement that the Colts balls were tested at halftime or there after? It does not.

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I forgot if it was Schefter or Mort Anderson or Glazer but somehow the speculation (yes, speculation) got out there.

Dr Pain said:

Once the pregame shows show the demonstrations of the PSI dropping like in all these videos, this makes the NFL and press look like total laughing stocks. It was only after these press conferences that 99% of the people began to open their eyes to this as a possibility.

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More people are speaking negative about this including the White House press Secretary and Bill Maher.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Colts are irrelevant. FOCUS on the issue.
Physics states that if Pats set their balls indoors at room temp to around 12.5 psi they're gonna lose over a psi after being outside. Could even drop below std if set at 13.5. Initial temperature and psi is the key.

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I think the balls the Colts used are very relevant. If the Patriots balls were not tampered with, then logic dictates that the Colts balls would also end up underinflated, correct?

Very little has been said, if any, on whether the balls the Colts used were any different as far as air pressure.

tmajr3 said:

The problem with all these experiments is that we don't have the starting and ending temperatures. If the Colts started at the same PSI as the Pats but didn't drop then someone deflated the balls.

Until the PSI from pregame are released these experiments don't help because we don't know the Colts numbers and drop, if any

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No if the Patriots and colts balls started at the same psi but ended the first half at different psi that does not mean someone deflated the balls.

Jesus this is frustrating. Can you read? Pressure alone means nothing. Pressure has to be mentioned with temperature. If the pats air inside the ball is 72 and the Colts is 50 then the pats lose 1.4 psi at 45 degrees and the Colts lose .2 or .3psi. Jesus.

PP2 said:

I think the balls the Colts used are very relevant. If the Patriots balls were not tampered with, then logic dictates that the Colts balls would also end up underinflated, correct?

Very little has been said, if any, on whether the balls the Colts used were any different as far as air pressure.

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No that's wrong. The Patriots balls could have been 72 and the Colts 50. So once they assume 45 degrees the Colts ball deflates hardly at all. 1/5 as much as the patriots.