Physics department chair at BC: weather alone could easily deflate ball from 12.5 to 10.5 psi

Froob said:

I wish the Pats were aggressive enough to flip the tables. How is it even possible Indy's could be within regs with this science if they weren't overinflated?

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The only way I can think of is they inflated them on the side line so they had a roughly equal temperature to kick off.

How about a theory where no one really is to blame - the Patriots equipment room was next to the boiler room or something. I have to think, after hearing Brady's and Belichick's unequivocal denials, that something funny happened that may not be intentionally human caused.

karguy85 said:

Boston may be a huge television market, but the rest of the country is many times larger, and they love watching the Patriots under scrutiny. It's become a national pastime.

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Changed my mind about a lot of people through this thing. Used to like Mort, Jackie Mac, Jerry Rice, and Jerome Bettis. But, now, **** EM. Wish I could go boo the **** out of Jackie at the Ace Tickets studios right now.

Big-T said:

The only way I can think of is they inflated them on the side line so they had a roughly equal temperature to kick off.

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Is that allowed? Couldn't teams overinflated them then?

Froob said:

Is that allowed? Couldn't teams overinflated them then?

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I can't imagine there's a rule saying where you can and can't prepare your Footballs for game day as long as they're ready for the inspection 2 hours before kick off.

But the more likely scenario is they went in with 14-14.5 PSI balls.

Froob said:

Is that allowed? Couldn't teams overinflated them then?

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Or the Colts inflated them anywhere that had a comparable temperature to the Weather Sunday in Gillette, whether that be somewhere in Indy or New England (or the temp difference could have been smaller between the place where they inflated the footballs and temperature on the field at the game, so they deflated less, along with starting at a higher PSI to begin with).

There are so many variables and potential reasons.

BelichickFan said:

I'm still thinking they inflated the balls to a legal level with extra warm air (nothing against that in the rules) and let nature take it's course.

I don't believe the Patriots could have done it while the balls were in the officials' locker room before the game. I don't believe the ball boys could do it on the sideline with 80,000 or so people in the stands and tons of video cameras.

This scenario really works. They would have inflated it per the rules. It would have passed the officials' test. It would have deflated some as it cooled.

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Or...the officials never tested the balls. What else are they going to say? Oops, we just feel them and if they feel ok, that's good enough...that sounds like the start of a bad joke with a hooker in the punchline, doesn't it?

Observer said:

Brady should have said exactly what Rodgers said.

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Nah. He's a big boy. He doesn't need to cite Aaron Rodgers. He said "**** you" to Goodell all by himself.

How about the Colts' balls? Why were they at correct pressure?

Well, how about this. The night before the game the Colts' balls sat in a truck outside their hotel.
When they got to the stadium the balls had mostly cold air inside and the equipment guy added or
let some air out when he tested. The ball were then checked by the refs and outside they went.
Since they were filled with mostly outside temperature air when tested the pressure didn't change much
as the game played.

Someone please tell me exactly what Rodgers said

Big-T said:

I can't imagine there's a rule saying where you can and can't prepare your Footballs for game day as long as they're ready for the inspection 2 hours before kick off.

But the more likely scenario is they went in with 14-14.5 PSI balls.

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Oh duh, thought you ment during the game.

Science doesn't exist.

kennyb said:

Given that they don't understand physics and the rule is the ball must be at least 12.5psi, why would they take it inside to heat it up? They're thinking the pressure is the pressure.

So no I think the refs measured it on the field. Why would they take it inside?

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I thought the first balls are measured inside near the locker room with the refs. The balls almost always lose pressure in the cold but nobody has ever cared. That is what is stupid.

What I don't get is why nobody has mentioned this. Does anybody know of a reason this is not the answer?

I already posted the most obvious explanation.

First, the 3rd party video I posted shows that a Wilson football drops from 13 PSI to 9 PSI in just 30 minutes when brought outside from a guy's basement to a chilly outdoors, as measured with digital and manual temperature readers and air pressure gauges and pump. In theory the air pressure may drop to 10.5 PSI, but reality shows it can go far lower (this is even before you account that a wet ball would be even colder inside than a dry ball at the same temperature.)

More than malice, the clear and likely explanation is that the visiting team, the Colts, arrived with footballs in the luggage compartment of their bus and left them there until the referees asked to see them.

The luggage area is probably not heated. Also, luggage is below the passenger area, so there would be little heat transfer into the luggage part of the bus because heat travels upwards toward the roof. Finally, the bus was likely parked with the engine and heat off after the team arrived.

The Colts balls were likely left on the parked bus until they were needed by the referees for obvious reasons -- why bring them into the host's stadium. It was also raining heavily and there was a chance the rain could stop, so why get them wet --twice -- right before the game. Why carry 24 valuable footballs (12 of theirs, plus 12 optional the visiting team can bring) back and forth in heavy rain?

On the other hand, I doubt Bill or Tom keeps game footballs in the trunks of their cars or an outdoor shack. The host team (Patriots) obviously stores the balls inside and probably inflated them inside.

They inflated them to 12.5 PSI, because the NFL allows all quarterbacks to choose the pressure they like when they give the balls to the referees. Either the referees measured the Patriots footballs indoors (especially with heavy rain) or they were brought out to the referees outside shortly before they were measured, so they still had the right air pressure. In fact, with heavy rain or snow, and hours to kill before the game, I bet the referees will check the visiting team balls outside and the host team inside -- they don't need to do both simultaneously.

A drop of 4 PSI or less is well within the theory and 3rd party tests of what's expected. Additionally, the Patriots are not allowed to tamper with the balls (by heating or inflating) after the referees approve the starting air pressure. Then we would have InflateGate. And we already know the referees don't care about the air pressure between plays so I doubt they would hold up a play to add air to the ball at a quarterback's request (maybe in the future, but not in the past.)

Finally, at half-time, the referees obviously pumped more air on the field, not in a special room indoors, and it was cold outdoor air so the balls maintained pressure throughout. This proves the balls were not leaking air, and not faulty in any way. Finally, the balls lost pressure uniformly. If you wanted to cheat, you would inflate the balls at different levels and mark them, so you could pick and choose based on weather conditions during a particular hour.

mosi said:

I thought the first balls are measured inside near the locker room with the refs. The balls almost always lose pressure in the cold but nobody has ever cared. That is what is stupid.

What I don't get is why nobody has mentioned this. Does anybody know of a reason this is not the answer?

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The leak to Kravitz, the Indy reporter made this spiral insanely before rational heads could be heard. The Colts F'd the NFL with this. 100% Colts fault for all this. They are ignorant hicks who play in a climate controlled dome and are owned by a druggie.

JR4 said:

How about the Colts' balls? Why were they at correct pressure?

Well, how about this. The night before the game the Colts' balls sat in a truck outside their hotel.
When they got to the stadium the balls had mostly cold air inside and the equipment guy added or
let some air out when he tested. The ball were then checked by the refs and outside they went.
Since they were filled with mostly outside temperature air when tested the pressure didn't change much
as the game played.

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Air is air. The temperature is what changes the pressure. When the balls were brought inside it only takes about 10-20 minutes to warm up. The same is true when going outside. Watch the video posted, it makes the point clearly. I don't think the nfl rules even bother to consider temperature and pressure.

Dr Pain said:

The leak to Kravitz, the Indy reporter made this spiral insanely before rational heads could be heard. The Colts F'd the NFL with this. 100% Colts fault for all this. They are ignorant hicks who play in a climate controlled dome and are owned by a druggie.

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Plus, the guy who intercepted the ball (whatever his name is) now says he never told anyone on the sidelines that he thought the ball was underinflated.

mosi said:

Air is air. The temperature is what changes the pressure. When the balls were brought inside it only takes about 10-20 minutes to warm up. The same is true when going outside. Watch the video posted, it makes the point clearly. I don't think the nfl rules even bother to consider temperature and pressure.

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There is the main flaw with the NFL standard of 12.5-13.5. It is meaningless number without a temperature reference and there is no reference in the rule book.

mosi said:

Air is air. The temperature is what changes the pressure. When the balls were brought inside it only takes about 10-20 minutes to warm up. The same is true when going outside. Watch the video posted, it makes the point clearly. I don't think the nfl rules even bother to consider temperature and pressure.

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The rate it gains heat is proportional to the temperature diffetence. A 50 degree ball in a 70 degree room isn't going to gain heat as fast as a 70 degree ball in the video would lose it in 20 degree weather. Maybe they brought them in the Colts and they were measured minutes later anyway.

juny said:

There is the main flaw with the NFL standard of 12.5-13.5. It is meaningless number without a temperature reference and there is no reference in the rule book.

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This is exactly right. It's on the nfl for not realizing they need to link the two ie 12.5 at game tempetature. Or alternatively have them measured again on the field.