Peter King: Footballs were tampered with by human

rlcarr said:

1) colts equipment manager tested the intercepted ball, found it low, told Pagano and Colts complained to ref, refs tested at halftime because they didn't want to have long play stoppage for testing. No need for sting scenario or refs intentionally letting first half go with bad balls.
2) Glazer's sting scenario.

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That is worse to let the patriots play with a so called advantage.

Sticky Caulk said:

this is pretty much what I said at the beginning. The pats hand the balls off to the refs underinflated. The refs did not check them with a gauge. They probably don't usually bother to. Irsay made this an issue. It never mattered until he said it mattered. The NFL has to investigate because an owner complained about tampering. Irsay leaked this to the media to pressure the NFL into action.

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sounds good to me.

stephens44 said:

Anyway you look at it, it just sucks. Its a distraction from the game, a smear of the whole franchise and we're stuck talking about this crap instead of just enjoying the two weeks leading up to the game. I wish the League would just step up and say something of substance.

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That's the issue for me too. When I have to have serious phone conversations with my dad in which he urges me not to let my son wear his Pats hat and gloves (which he does every day to school) because we are afraid of the backlash he might receive then it has gone way, way, way way too far. And we have reason to feel that way, we aren't just overreacting.

Why can't someone do a story about this? About how angry the fans are? We are in this too and we are being left to twist in the wind same as the Pats are. Only we know nothing since all we have is the dopey media to rely on and I haven't clicked on ESPN since 2007.

Big-T said:

Which is pretty implausible from the get go. Pretty much everyone in non-rigged tests (looking at you ESPN for that) can't tell the difference.

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Doesn't matter if you can't tell the difference. Colts were planning all this and so were going to test the ball no matter how it felt.

Not implausible at all given reports Colts were upset at balls after November game.

rlcarr said:

Doesn't matter if you can't tell the difference. Colts were planning all this and so were going to test the ball no matter how it felt.

Not implausible at all given reports Colts were upset at balls after November game.

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Which again, is also implausible. All this IT WAS A STING! THE COLTS KNEW FOR MONTHS! Is complete and utter trash.

If the Colts suspected anything at all they would have reported it in November.

Yes, those November reports….where did they come from? I am giving them all the credibility of the D'Quell reports. (Oh, but that didn't prevent me from hearing about them on a rock radio station which never ever talks sports yesterday. If I was able to get away from this by turning off sports talk radio a few days ago, that is all gone now. I can't turn on my radio at all.)

Danger Zone said:

The man doing the experimentation here states in the comments that the football rose back up to 12 psi after being left outside the fridge for about 10 minutes.





It appalls me that no one in the media has wanted to make a piece out of them trying something like this.

These experiments could all be improved on to tighten the parameters up, but all of that would be incredibly easy for anyone in the media to accomplish.

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OK, this one seriously deserves it's own thread.

Especially that last one.

I watched some of the 1st one (DUDE took way too long)

And the last one which was straight to the point.

If the balls were inflated to the bottom of the limit, then went outside in temps 25 degrees colder they would then go down in pressure. Then brought back in they would go up.

The Colts seemed to know ahead of time they were going to try this so I have no doubt they would inflate there's to the top of the limit.

Wow, when I First read the King article I got worried. Went to do some garden work.. Back and>>
Its just all the stuff from rumours we have been hearing. Just packaged nice and neat. Perfect for mass consumption. AS most of you have pointed out...no pressure gauge mention in original testing...thats a tough point for comish to get over. And I am sure the Pats know that...and they were begged by comish not to mention it yesterday....as another favour from Kraft to Badell

BTw , did the Colts cheat? did they artificially keep the balls temp up? Did anyone check if they had a heating mat ? Of course they are beyong reproach. Too many variables for Comish to convict without hard evidence. Of course he can do what he wants.

sarge said:

OK, this one seriously deserves it's own thread.

Especially that last one.

I watched some of the 1st one (DUDE took way too long)

And the last one which was straight to the point.

If the balls were inflated to the bottom of the limit, then went outside in temps 25 degrees colder they would then go down in pressure. Then brought back in they would go up.

The Colts seemed to know ahead of time they were going to try this so I have no doubt they would inflate there's to the top of the limit.

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I'm collecting anything that impresses me in a kind of placeholder Thread. Unfortunately I only got the resolve to start it last night and know I've let go by me several great links to information that helps put all of this in some perspective.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ence-that-helps-exonerate-or-explain.1115460/

rlcarr said:

IF IT IS TRUE, King's piece is pretty damning

You have the IND balls ok before and after.
You have the NE primary balls ok before and bad at halftime.
You have the NE backup balls ok before, at halftime, and after (I interpret the "all 24 balls" after the game to be IND primaries and NE backups since NE primaries were removed from game at halftime according to reports)

That means that even though NE primary and backups were each used for half the game, primaries deflated and backups didn't. Not good

And while I totally believe refs usually do squeeze test pregame instead of official protocol, if IND really did complain before game (let alone if Glazer's sting report is true), there's no way the league didn't instruct the refs to damn well follow official protocol for pregame testing.

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I'm going to call a mea culpa on myself earlier in this thread. I misinterpreted King's point, while I think yours is more logical - namely, I interpreted the "all 24 balls" at the end of the game meaning all the Pats footballs, while rereading it I think your interpretation makes more sense - the 24 balls being the 12 backups used in the 2nd half and the 12 Colts primary footballs used all game. So I'm the idiot...

That said, there is still a logical explanation besides human tampering. The individual teams don't provide new footballs for each game - they just provide footballs (in contrast, the kicking balls are new for each game). Very likely they don't uninflate and then reinflate before each game. The 12 primary footballs had been used for a while, weren't reinflated or pressure checked by the Pats ball boy, and Brady picked them because they were easiest to grip and they were "worn" - the same way Eli mentioned. The other 12 were a set that weren't used often so were likely in better condition. The NFL refs did a "squeeze" test and said ok. Did actual test at halftime. Oops.

If that scenario is the case, penalty should be $25K fine to the Pats for negligence but no additional penalty for intentionally bending the rules.

stephens44 said:

Sorry, based on what I linked previously I'm pretty sure you're just over complicating it...

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You linked to a density chart. It does not show the relationship between T and P, it shows the density based on T and P. Discussing the accurate equations that model what happens when a container of gas is moved from a higher temperature to a lower temperature is not "over-complicating" it. Especially when we are already dealing with so much misinformation, incomplete facts and outright dumb-ness (not directed at you).

Hammer of Thor said:

NFL refs did a "squeeze" test and said ok. Did actual test at halftime. Oops.

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I really really really want that to be true. But I have a very hard time believing that if the Colts or league had concerns about balls before the game that the refs wouldn't have been reminded to follow the official procedure.

AS I said on one of the other threads: All we "know" is that the Colts balls were not under the limit. We do not know what the original pressure was and so do not know if they lost pressure.

And by "know" I mean "heave heard from 'reports'"

rlcarr said:

I really really really want that to be true. But I have a very hard time believing that if the Colts or league had concerns about balls before the game that the refs wouldn't have been reminded to follow the official procedure.

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My question is, if the league was informed back in November, why wait until a completely unforseen Indy/NE playoff match up to do anything about it? Did Indy just hold onto that information and set up the "sting" the week prior to the game?

No matter how you slice it, either Indy or the league looks a whole lot worse than the Patriots to me.

I'm really tired of this speculation being treated as fact. I won't believe anybody until it's actually confirmed publicly

Oswlek said:

Did Indy just hold onto that information and set up the "sting" the week prior to the game.

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I don't know how much I believe the Glazer sting scenario because it would mean league intentionally let possibly bad balls go for half the game.

However, I do not think it's particularly crazy for the following to play out if the Colts had concerns from November:

Colts had some concerns in November (but not wanting to start anything with a datapoint from a single game). Then pregame they tell concerns to refs (to help make sure refs follow the pregame testing protocol). Then when they happen to get an interception they have equipment guy test it and see it's low. Now they have a second datapoint and thus are willing to officially complain to refs. Refs don't want to stop the game for 10 minutes while they test everything so they wait for halftime (especially since by the time the GM okays the complaint it would be close to halftime anyway).

Key piece of information someone needs to obtain:

- Temperature of air Pats pumped the balls up with in the first place (i.e., where'd they pump it + method).
- Temperature of air Colts pumped their balls up in the first place (i.e., again - where & how)
- Temperature of air Pats pumped balls up with for 2nd half. (where & how)
- How much, if any, drop there was in the Colts balls (all we know is they stayed legal, but started higher).
- If the Colts touched their balls at all during the game to keep them at the level they were pre-game.

Considering how unscientific the process has been thus far, I don't expect the NFL has considered or will considered obtaining this information. Reading into their leaks - they decided to blame it on the Pats from the get go.

All they need to do is replicate the purported initial conditions in which the balls were pumped, and then test them at similar conditions as the game several hours later. Will they? No!

rlcarr said:

I don't know how much I believe the Glazer sting scenario because it would mean league intentionally let possibly bad balls go for half the game.

However, I do not think it's particularly crazy for the following to play out if the Colts had concerns from November:

Colts had some concerns in November (but not wanting to start anything with a datapoint from a single game). Then pregame they tell concerns to refs (to help make sure refs follow the pregame testing protocol). Then when they happen to get an interception they have equipment guy test it and see it's low. Now they have a second datapoint and thus are willing to officially complain to refs. Refs don't want to stop the game for 10 minutes while they test everything so they wait for halftime (especially since by the time the GM okays the complaint it would be close to halftime anyway).

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Yes, but supposedly they have specific data from before the game when apparently that is something of a rarity.

What seems most likely is that NE under-inflated the ball in the first place, the refs gave it a casual once over, and then the low balls were - shockingly! - found to be low at halftime. The whole clandestine post-check deflating is what has people riled up and it appears to be the least likely scenario.

If this story (King's), were even remotely true....... the NFL would have already come out and made a statement. It might defer punishment until after the SB, but if there was a shread of evidence that the
"Footballs were tampered with by human", then the investigations would be closed.

If I were a betting man....... I'd go with the theory that the Pats turned in "slightly" underinflated balls and the refs didn't do thier job to specification. The NFL would be LOATHE to admit this so they are in a huge pickle right now, and are probably every bit as pissed at the Colts as the Pats are. Given the article that quoted Rogers suggesting that he deliberately turns in overly inflated balls and "hopes" that they pass through, suggest that the "pressure" checks are widely know to be less then scientific. The only thing that makes sense at this point, from a non-conspiracy stand point is that the balls were under-inflated and the ref just gave then the "charmin" pressure check. If the NFL comes out and says that, then it would basically out the refs as not following the rules, which would call into ?? every game, in every season...

I don't think the NFL is deliberately trying to damage themselves at this point, I think they are trying to "protect the brand", which goes way beyond just this single game.

BradyManny said:

Key piece of information someone needs to obtain:

- Temperature of air Pats pumped the balls up with in the first place (i.e., where'd they pump it + method).
- Temperature of air Colts pumped their balls up in the first place (i.e., again - where & how)
- Temperature of air Pats pumped balls up with for 2nd half. (where & how)
- How much, if any, drop there was in the Colts balls (all we know is they stayed legal, but started higher).
- If the Colts touched their balls at all during the game to keep them at the level they were pre-game.

Considering how unscientific the process has been thus far, I don't expect the NFL has considered or will considered obtaining this information. Reading into their leaks - they decided to blame it on the Pats from the get go.

All they need to do is replicate the purported initial conditions in which the balls were pumped, and then test them at similar conditions as the game several hours later. Will they? No!

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this is incorrect.

the only thing that is key (at least to the media) is that BB gets hanged...........they want revenge for years of press conferences that make them look stupid