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Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again


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Asking for your support
 

Should QBs get to throw the ball any way they like it?

  • Yes

    Votes: 82 70.1%
  • No the ball should be one way for everybody

    Votes: 35 29.9%

  • Total voters
    117
Someone in another thread mentioned that the 12th ball doesn't have the same lower PSI as the other 11 balls because it is the Kicking ball. So if they somehow did this, they wouldn't lower the PSI in the kicking ball because lower PSI means the ball won't go as far.

Gotta admit that does make sense. I hope none of this is true. :(


100% wrong.

The 12 balls for each team are completely separate from the 8 kicking balls that are only in the officials' custody.
 
The reality is simple. If the balls start off at 13.5, what conditions need to happen for the ball to reach 11 by half time.

Was it even possible in the conditions that existed. Assuming the balls weren't faulty.

I don't believe that you're going to find too many people who'd believe that 11/12 footballs could deflate all the way from 13.5 psi down to 11 in a matter of a couple/few hours--under any conditions.

I'm guessing that Brady and most other QBs prefer theirs around 12.5 (minimum), so that's probably a good starting point.

EDIT: just saw others have commented--sorry to pile on.
 
Notice, maybe. But what could they do about it? There doesn't appear to be a rule regulating temperature

Then New England shall be cleared and the blame falls on the league itselft for not regulating the temperature at the time of measurement.

Nobody knows if this is the case though, as the investigation is ongoing and the only findings revealed are that 11 of 12 (or 24 potentially, as this was an expected foul weather game) had a PSI lower than legal limits at the time of measuring.

Speculation says the the balls were approved before opening kickoff, which supports one of two theories, the balls were intentionally deflated or the balls were legally filled with hit air to provide the specified PSI (I'm more inclined to believe the latter due to how our team operates, I don't believe they risk getting caught deflating balls as using hot air isn't techincally against the rules, however, it does APPEAR to bend them).
 
We know one thing and one thing only. Assuming the report is correct, the balls were deemed to be around 2psi (gauge pressure as pointed out) under legal specs.
How, when, and where these measurements took place, is unknown.
We also don't know if the refs just let it go or the Pats altered the balls after.
 
This whole thing is just a manifestation of how much hatred some people have towards our beloved team. People calling for suspensions, firings, loss of draft picks, etc over slightly deflated footballs with no official report citing guilt of anyone.
 
Honestly, I'm far more concerned that the media circus just makes Belichick retire sooner than he might have otherwise than anything else here–based on the limited facts we know so far, at least.
 
I think a lot of folks (not only on this thread, but elsewhere in the sports media world) are thinking everything happened in nice little discrete events, within a very short period of time, which further reinforces the notion of bad intent...or willful cheating.

I'd first like to cite the comments of Aaron Rodgers, who suggested that he typically "gets away" with over-inflated balls, which happens to be his preference. According to Aaron, however, there have been a few cases where the refs have caught the "indiscretion", and released air from the balls to get them within spec (12.5 - 13.5 psi). And no cheating was ever accused in these cases.

We've also heard that both Peyton and Eli Manning have advocated to the NFL (for quite some time) that they be allowed to have their own pre-conditioned footballs...footballs that they evidently use throughout the entire season (I'm guessing that his could even include the pre-season as well). These footballs are "groomed" over the course of a very long time (months, at least) and ultimately attain (again, over time) the desired characteristics that each QB individually prefers. The NFL has sanctioned this practice, evidently, with Peyton having been one of the chief advocates (this according to Rogers).

So it's my belief that:

1) Over the course of a season, the balls naturally lose a small amount of pressure, and they are not routinely pumped up - i.e. on a daily basis, as many people seem to believe. The theory being "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"....or, if the QB is happy with it, don't mess with it.

2) At game-time, the referees give lip service to the inspection, opting to use their sense of touch/feel vs an actual psi gauge on 12 or more footballs to assess each ball's individual pressure spec (again, this is my guess...and it could also be the reason why the NFL is now "very disappointed" because this check has not been rigorously/uniformly conducted).

3) All Teams know this...and present their footballs "as is" for the inspection, whether overly inflated like the Packers, or slightly underinflated like the Patriots (or maybe several other teams?). The idea here is that it's "on the referees" to determine the suitability of the balls...not the team itself.

4) Both BB and TB are well aware of this phenomenon, just like Aaron Rogers and the Packers are, so I guess you could say that they are all "complicit". However I'm guessing they would never stand in the way of a finding whereby a ball (or balls) needed to be inflated to a higher psi, if so determined. Yet they'd certainly accept the use of the balls "as is" because it's already been determined (in all those previous practices and games) that they are perfectly aligned to the preference of the QB who will be handling and/or throwing them during the game.

5) So does this constitute cheating?

6) OTOH, any evidence which demonstrates...conclusively...that the balls were altered after the referee's inspection, by a member of the Patriots, and/or at the direction of the Patriots, would indicate cheating.

7) I think the environmental conditions, and the dynamic nature of those conditions (temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, etc.) played a very minor part in this whole situation. Reason being that the balls were probably never measured at 40 degrees F (game conditions). They were likely measured at around 70 degrees F (indoor/room temperature conditions). So any pressure losses attributable to a 30 degree temp differential would never come into play in any of these determinations, nor would they be meaningful either.​
 
I'm not rushing to judgement but based on what we know so far it's not good.

If it plays out like it seems to be playing out then no matter how insignificant the impact on the actual outcome of the game it validates the 'If they cheated before they're probably cheating again' thing people have said about our success after 2007.

Which, as a fan, has me infuriated. This was finally the year where we would be able to say "Rings after Spygate: 1 more than Peyton Manning"

It's not as bad as cheating the cap. It's not as bad as paying people to injure other players. But it's still bad if true.

And considering the microscope this team is constantly under it would be mindblowingly stupid to have done on purpose knowing at any time a player on the other team could figure it out.

There's one key difference here.

With 2007, the existence of the tape was "evidence" of "wrongdoing."

Here, the fact that there were under-inflated balls does not, in and of itself, prove that the Patriots did anything wrong. Even the fact that it was 11 balls doesn't prove the Patriots did anything wrong.

The only case in which there is a problem is if someone from the Patriots intentionally tampered with the balls after the referees made the pre-game check (assuming that such a check was in fact made). NFL policy dictates that if the balls are found to be below spec during the pre-game check, the remedy is simply to inflate them to the proper pressure.
 
We are going to the Super Bowl but it doesn't feel like it. I just hope the league is quick in the investigation so we can move on. We should be happy and celebrating right now.

I hope this isn't another Superbowl that by the time the game is ready to start, I feel like "Let's just get this damned game over!"

I've already felt that way about one game.

If your favorite team is playing in the Superbowl that is supposed to make you happy right?
 
The reality is simple. If the balls start off at 13.5, what conditions need to happen for the ball to reach 11 by half time.

Was it even possible in the conditions that existed. Assuming the balls weren't faulty.


The low end of legal is 12.5, not 13.5.
 
Had a read through Kravitz's twitter timeline. If that's not the works of a ****ing idiot then I don't know what I ****ing idiot looks like.

Perhaps some of us are staying mum until ALL the facts come out you ****wit?
 
I think a lot of folks (not only on this thread, but elsewhere in the sports media world) are thinking everything happened in nice little discrete events, within a very short period of time, which further reinforces the notion of bad intent...or willful cheating.

I'd first like to cite the comments of Aaron Rodgers, who suggested that he typically "gets away" with over-inflated balls, which happens to be his preference. According to Aaron, however, there have been a few cases where the refs have caught the "indiscretion", and released air from the balls to get them within spec (12.5 - 13.5 psi). And no cheating was ever accused in these cases.

We've also heard that both Peyton and Eli Manning have advocated to the NFL (for quite some time) that they be allowed to have their own pre-conditioned footballs...footballs that they evidently use throughout the entire season (I'm guessing that his could even include the pre-season as well). These footballs are "groomed" over the course of a very long time (months, at least) and ultimately attain (again, over time) the desired characteristics that each QB individually prefers. The NFL has sanctioned this practice, evidently, with Peyton having been one of the chief advocates (this according to Rogers).

So it's my belief that:
1) Over the course of a season, the balls naturally lose a small amount of pressure, and they are not routinely pumped up - i.e. on a daily basis, as many people seem to believe. The theory being "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"....or, if the QB is happy with it, don't mess with it.
2) At game-time, the referees give lip service to the inspection, opting to use their sense of touch/feel vs an actual psi gauge on 12 or more footballs to assess each ball's individual pressure spec (again, this is my guess...and it could also be the reason why the NFL is now "very disappointed" because this check has not been rigorously/uniformly conducted).
3) All Teams know this...and present their footballs "as is" for the inspection, whether overly inflated like the Packers, or slightly underinflated like the Patriots (or maybe several other teams?). The idea here is that it's "on the referees" to determine the suitability of the balls...not the team itself.
4) Both BB and TB are well aware of this phenomenon, just like Aaron Rogers and the Packers are, so I guess you could say that they are all "complicit". However I'm guessing they would never stand in the way of a finding whereby a ball (or balls) needed to be inflated to a higher psi, if so determined. Yet they'd certainly accept the use of the balls "as is" because it's already been determined (in all those previous practices and games) that they are perfectly aligned to the preference of the QB who will be handling and/or throwing them during the game.
5) So does this constitute cheating?
6) OTOH, any evidence which demonstrates...conclusively...that the balls were altered after the referee's inspection, by a member of the Patriots, and/or at the direction of the Patriots, would indicate cheating.
7) I think the environmental conditions, and the dynamic nature of those conditions (temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, etc.) played a very minor part in this whole situation. Reason being that the balls were probably never measured at 40 degrees F (game conditions). They were likely measured at around 70 degrees F (indoor/room temperature conditions). So any pressure losses attributable to a 30 degree temp differential would never come into play in any of these determinations, nor would they be meaningful either.

A lot of your post seems to hinge on you believing the balls are approved before the season.

They are required to be approved two hours before kick off of the specific game, they require maintenance.

If they are below the limits then yes, they are "routinely" pumped up, to fix the error, or they would be rejected and corrected before they are allowed for use in a game.
 
Sport Science better do an experiment to see if this had anything to do with the weather, pressure, Gay-Lussac's Law being a factor, etc..
 
The interesting thing about the Ravens report is that if their balls were under-inflated, it wouldn't be from the Pats. The question is whether the refs are doing their job at that point.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: TBR
And now the Ravens are piling on. I had a feeling it was only a matter of time before those morons got on board.
 
I don't believe that you're going to find too many people who'd believe that 11/12 footballs could deflate all the way from 13.5 psi down to 11 in a matter of a couple/few hours--under any conditions.

I'm guessing that Brady and most other QBs prefer theirs around 12.5 (minimum), so that's probably a good starting point.

The League allows for a range of 12.5 min to 13.5 max.

Brady has stated he prefers footballs at the lower.

It was raining.

Now lets all take a guess what the psi of the footballs were that the Patriots submitted to the Refs?

Do you really want to make the assumption that for some odd reason, the Patriots chose to submit footballs at the maximum psi of 13.5?

Yes, choosing to go with the maximum psi allowed puts the realistic potential drop in psi out of the realm of physics and into the realm of tampering or bungling.

Just as choosing to assume that the Patriots chose to submit footballs at the low end of the allowable psi range easily puts the reports of footballs of 11 psi (with a total drop of 1.5 psi) back into the realm of what we would expect from physics and falling 40-50 temperatures that night.

I know which I choose to believe.
 
Last edited:
Gee, this is sure fun, right?

Even if we win the SB, it will sure be a super celebration? Amirite?

Why am I even up posting anyway. I don't even like the NFL anymore. Oh sure, they are all over some ball story but women getting beat up? Not so much.

I really don't care anymore. Good night, everyone.
 
Some questions that need to be answered:

  1. Did the officials remember to do the PSI checks '2' hours before the game?
  2. Did the officials record the PSI readings from '2' hours before the game?
  3. Did the cameras spot any tampering with the footballs post-inspection?
  4. Did the ball boys, and any other potential tamperers get interviewed and offer any admissions?
  5. Did Colts footballs get re-tested at the half (or whenever the specific time of re-testing happened to be) along with the Patriots footballs?
  6. What is the likely impact of the weather upon the footballs, and is this in the theoretical range?
  7. How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie roll center of a Tootsie roll Tootsie pop (assuming the licker doesn't have an owl's beak)?
 


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