Mr Kraft, The Time has Come To Ask: Whose Side Are You On?

BradyManny · Jan 20, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Who knows. Making statements without the facts rarely works out well.

On the contrary, this is how the world - outside of science - has always operated, and likely always will.

FWIW, Curran agrees with those who think the NFL isn't sweating ball-gate:

Meanwhile, the curiosity started by D’Qwell Jackson gave way to suspicion which gave way to perception which has now become the reality. The Patriots went flat ball in the AFC Championship. No need for an allegedly anymore.

The league office will grind the Patriots -- Belichick specifically –- whenever it can. Don’t expect a quick conclusion.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pa...balls-indianapolis-colts-new-england-patriots

Ring 6 · Jan 20, 2015

Jackson 2 said:
Working pretty well for the Colts right now...

Is it? How so?

Ring 6 · Jan 20, 2015

BradyManny said:
On the contrary, this is how the world - outside of science - has always operated, and likely always will.

FWIW, Curran agrees with those who think the NFL isn't sweating ball-gate:

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pa...balls-indianapolis-colts-new-england-patriots

Because some people open their mouths without facts doesn't mean it is the smart thing to do.
Kraft holding a press conference to bltch about the complaint gives it credence. Why not wait until the league announces they found nothing?
Ask Mike Piazza how responding to rumors without facts worked out when he called a press conference to announce he wasn't gay.

Jackson 2 · Jan 20, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Is it? How so?

You figure it out.

Ring 6 · Jan 20, 2015

Jackson 2 said:
You figure it out.

So you don't know either?
Not sure how the Colts are making statements without facts.
The only people from Indy that has made any comment is a sportswriter and Pagano who said he knew nothing about deflated footballs.
So no, I can't figure it out. Please explain for me. How is making public statements without facts working out well for the Colts?

PatsWickedPissah · Jan 20, 2015

Rob0729 said:
And here I thought Babson was a good business school. I guess I was wrong.

What was I wrong about? That the biggest misnomer that there is no such thing as bad press? I think Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, AIG, Mel Gibson, Hewlitt Packard, etc. would agree with me. The world is littered with companies and people hurt by bad press.

After Target reported that their credit card info had been stolen, their 4th quarter profits dropped 46%.

After Toyota had their massive recall, their sales dropped 16%.

After Lululemon recalled some of their yoga pants for being see through and had a scandal that they were shunning overweight shoppers, their sales dropped.

There are plenty of examples of bad press killing sales or destroying careers. Hell, the ratings are down this year for the NFL, maybe it is in part because of the domestic violence scandals (although I don't know if that is true).

Bad press can sometimes have a positive effect, but it also can be a disaster.

You once again are oblivious to the point that the NFL & Saint Andrew are the white hats here while the already hated Patriots are the bad guys.
Your analogies totally miss this point.
You come close when you cite domestic violence where the league is very happy to have something else to occupy the public's attention.

terabthia2 · Jan 20, 2015

josh24 said:
One of the main standards of our legal systems is the presumption of innocence, known as the principle of "innocent until proven guilty". With the Patriots, is the exact opposite.

People truly believe that NE filmed the Rams walkthrough on SB 36, stole a copy from the Jets playbook, violate the rules by filing false injury reports, use illegal formations, among others.

Why?
Due to their name being tossed and dragged through the mud so often, with no active response or defense from the owner & FO against the detractors.

If a writer twits about the team purposely 'deflating balls', the immediate conclusion is that the Pats are guilty, with further analysis to come, rather than innocent. Most often than not a particular opinion gets repeated throughout various news mediums and social networking sites, until it creates a false vision where the perceived truth can actually be very far away from the actual truth.

At the end, even if the Pats have been cleaned up for all these accusations through the years, the damage is done. Public perception has worsened after this report, and there will be those who bring it year after year. We have already been judged "by the people".

Most of the fans around the league have already set their mind on "what happened", regardless of the conclusions the league draw on this issue.

This.

This is a witch hunt, pure and simple.

Rob0729 · Jan 20, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
You once again are oblivious to the point that the NFL & Saint Andrew are the white hats here while the already hated Patriots are the bad guys.
Your analogies totally miss this point.
You come close when you cite domestic violence where the league is very happy to have something else to occupy the public's attention.

Huh?!? The Colts are an after thought in this story. In fact, most people preface this story with "Not that it affected the outcome of the game". There is no one in the media framing this story as the Evil Patriots vs. the White Knight Colts. You are manufacturing storylines that aren't there. This story is all about the Patriots. I don't think I have seen a story about this subject that even mentioned Andrew Luck.

And I am sure the league is ecstatic that Deflate-Gate diverts people's attention from the domestic violence issues that no one has been talking about for at least weeks. Nothing better than trying divert people's attention from an issue they have already moved on from. Personally, I think the league loves that this story will finally get people talking about Bounty Gate.

BradyManny · Jan 20, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Because some people open their mouths without facts doesn't mean it is the smart thing to do.

Kraft holding a press conference to bltch about the complaint gives it credence. Why not wait until the league announces they found nothing?

On the contrary, saying nothing gives the complaint credence. It gives the illusion that we are waiting for facts to come out when in reality we have those facts. I'm sure Kraft knows by now that the accusations are bogus. Even coming out and laughing off these accusations and simply reminding people: "wait until the facts come out" wouldn't hurt.

Like I said, Brady's response was perfect. Complete and outright dismissal, an acknowledgement of the situation only through acknowledging its ridicolousness. Kraft needs to follow suit.

This ones for @Rob0729 - not trying to get it started again, but just an FYI:

curran said:
NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told me via e-mail that there was no timetable for the investigation and that it would “take as long as necessary.”

Ring 6 · Jan 20, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
You once again are oblivious to the point that the NFL & Saint Andrew are the white hats here while the already hated Patriots are the bad guys.
Your analogies totally miss this point.
You come close when you cite domestic violence where the league is very happy to have something else to occupy the public's attention.

I hate this victim identity where fans think the league is out to get us.
We were caught once breaking a rule and Patriots fans believe the punishment was severe.
That is not the equivalent of being hated and considered the bad guys by the league.
Lets give them an opportunity to conduct the investigation that they are required to conduct since a complaint was logged before we convict them of reaching an unfair decision they haven't reached yet.

Jackson 2 · Jan 20, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
So you don't know either?
Not sure how the Colts are making statements without facts.
The only people from Indy that has made any comment is a sportswriter and Pagano who said he knew nothing about deflated footballs.
So no, I can't figure it out. Please explain for me. How is making public statements without facts working out well for the Colts?

I already told you. Reading a problem for you? You figure it out. Then, screw off.

NYCPatsFan · Jan 20, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
Rational people need to ask themselves this: supposedly a notably deflated ball was reported by a Colt who'd picked Brady.

Then why did not the many refs who handle every ball on every play notice any of these supposedly deflated footballs???

Hah, what a splendid point.

Only problem is that only 'rational' people would ask such sensible questions.

To add to what rational persons might consider, if I may:

A Colts LB - who hasn't touched the Pat's ball that often - finds the ball not inflated enough and hands it over to the Colts equipment manager, who holds on to it for god-knows-how-long, and later reports it to the Colts HC; within a few hours, a columnist based out of Indy and a big time Colts fan, then 'reports' this story and openly admits that he did it because BB is the opponent's coach and ergo, some hanky-panky must be going on.

But heck, when emotions are involved, hate is widespread, and any anti-Pats allegation is bound to generate immense clicks in this internet world, why bother to let logic and rational thoughts derail the story?

Ring 6 · Jan 20, 2015

BradyManny said:
On the contrary, saying nothing gives the complaint credence. It gives the illusion that we are waiting for facts to come out when in reality we have those facts. I'm sure Kraft knows by now that the accusations are bogus. Even coming out and laughing off these accusations and simply reminding people: "wait until the facts come out" wouldn't hurt.

There are no facts. Belichick spoke on this. He knows nothing about it and will cooperate with whatever questions the league has.
What do you want them to do, run around creating potential charges to refute? No one (that matters) has said or implied the Patriots did anything wrong. Irsay lodged a complaint, the league is checking into it, the Patriots said they would answer any questions.
What would you like Kraft to do, have a press conference where he thinks up a whole bunch of things you could do wrong, and then issue denials of them? Thats silly.

Like I said, Brady's response was perfect. Complete and outright dismissal, an acknowledgement of the situation only through acknowledging its ridicolousness. Kraft needs to follow suit.

Why? Brady was asked, BB was asked. Why would Kraft call a press conference to address something that is a non-issue? How would Kraft even know what the team does with the footballs?

I cannot understand why you would expect someone who isn't involved in on field operations to go hold a press conference to explain that the people who are involved in on field operations did not do something that they have not even been accused of.

Ring 6 · Jan 20, 2015

Jackson 2 said:
I already told you. Reading a problem for you? You figure it out. Then, screw off.

So you don't know, and in response to that want to act like a little *****?
Why can't you just admit you were wrong? No one will think less of you. You made an incorrect statement, its not the end of the world.

BradyFTW! · Jan 20, 2015

Rob0729 said:
And here I thought Babson was a good business school. I guess I was wrong.

What was I wrong about? That the biggest misnomer that there is no such thing as bad press? I think Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, AIG, Mel Gibson, Hewlitt Packard, etc. would agree with me. The world is littered with companies and people hurt by bad press.

After Target reported that their credit card info had been stolen, their 4th quarter profits dropped 46%.

After Toyota had their massive recall, their sales dropped 16%.

After Lululemon recalled some of their yoga pants for being see through and had a scandal that they were shunning overweight shoppers, their sales dropped.

There are plenty of examples of bad press killing sales or destroying careers. Hell, the ratings are down this year for the NFL, maybe it is in part because of the domestic violence scandals (although I don't know if that is true).

Bad press can sometimes have a positive effect, but it also can be a disaster.

What hurt Target helped its competitors. What hurt Toyota helped its competitors. What hurt Lululemon helped its competitors. That's the point that you're missing. Even if this press does hurt the Pats, it doesn't hurt the league as a whole at all. 31 of the 32 franchises in the NFL are the Patriots' competitors.

Not to mention that, for every case that you can cite, there are many, many more where bad press had no negative affect whatsoever on the business in question.

Rob0729 · Jan 20, 2015

BradyManny said:
On the contrary, saying nothing gives the complaint credence. It gives the illusion that we are waiting for facts to come out when in reality we have those facts. I'm sure Kraft knows by now that the accusations are bogus. Even coming out and laughing off these accusations and simply reminding people: "wait until the facts come out" wouldn't hurt.

Like I said, Brady's response was perfect. Complete and outright dismissal, an acknowledgement of the situation only through acknowledging its ridicolousness. Kraft needs to follow suit.

This ones for @Rob0729 - not trying to get it started again, but just an FYI:

This doesn't say much other than the likelihood it is resolved today is unlikely.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jan 20, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
What would you like Kraft to do, have a press conference where he thinks up a whole bunch of things you could do wrong, and then issue denials of them? Thats silly.

The Patriots acknowledged that they screwed up badly during Spygate by being so passive, which let it spiral out of control. They have said that their PR team made a giant gaffe that permanently scarred the team's reputation. I feel that the team owes it to their own fans to make a swift public denial, including indignation and anger, that they are being smeared once again. Their silence leads me to believe that maybe there is more truth to the allegations than we are hoping for. Sorry for being prone to the same facets of human nature as everyone else out there.

BradyManny · Jan 20, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
I cannot understand why you would expect someone who isn't involved in on field operations to go hold a press conference to explain that the people who are involved in on field operations did not do something that they have not even been accused of.

Me, you, Bill Belichick, Tom Brady - we can ignore the accusations and pretend to live in a world where image doesn't matter. That's fine. Like I said yesterday, there are no ****s left in me to give about this situation from that standpoint. If anything, I take pride in watching stupid people make excuses for lesser teams.

It's become fun being the guys everyone wants to hate. I'm finding ball-gate particularly entertaining of all the ludicrous things thrown our way.

But Robert Kraft, as owner of the New England Patriots, can be concerned about a tremendous amount of negative press written about the integrity of his team. He shouldn't be showing respect to people who don't deserve it, and not even saying anything is showing too much respect. Even an "I'm not going to acknowledge it, wait until the facts come out, these articles are stupid and baseless." - he needs to be above it all.

Ring 6 · Jan 20, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
The Patriots acknowledged that they screwed up badly during Spygate by being so passive, which let it spiral out of control. They have said that their PR team made a giant gaffe that permanently scarred the team's reputation. I feel that the team owes it to their own fans to make a swift public denial, including indignation and anger, that they are being smeared once again. Their silence leads me to believe that maybe there is more truth to the allegations than we are hoping for. Sorry for being prone to the same facets of human nature as everyone else out there.

Can you give me a link to the Patriots acknowledging they screwed up badly during Spygate by being so passive?

You seem to think they have been legitimately accused of something. If that ever happens then of course they should get their message out but as of now, all we have is that Irsay asked the league to look into a ball he thought was underinflated.
Again, I'm not sure what you want Kraft to go public about, there is no accusation. Should he get into a twitter fight with Micheal Wilbon? Should he deny he kidnapped the Lindberg baby?

Rob0729 · Jan 20, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
What hurt Target helped its competitors. What hurt Toyota helped its competitors. What hurt Lululemon helped its competitors. That's the point that you're missing. Even if this press does hurt the Pats, it doesn't hurt the league as a whole at all. 31 of the 32 franchises in the NFL are the Patriots' competitors.

Not to mention that, for every case that you can cite, there are many, many more where bad press had no negative affect whatsoever on the business in question.

The league as a whole takes a hit for having a team that reportly cheated competing in and potentially winning the Super Bowl. And that analogy doesn't really work. The Toyota scandal forced someone looking for a car to go elsewhere because they had to buy a car. This thing isn't going Pats fans become Eagles fans.

And yes, negative press can have any number of effects from seriously hurting your brand and company to seriously helping your brand and company. I was dispelling the myth that no press is bad press. Many times bad publicity is disastrous for companies. Many times it is prosperous for companies.

Mr Kraft, The Time has Come To Ask: Whose Side Are You On?

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