Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again

rlcarr said:

Yep! That is Captain Avatar of the Argo if you were a Star Blazers fan and Captain Okita of the Yamato if you were a Space Battleship Yamato fan.

However, that specific image is taken from the Space Battleship Yamato: 2199 anime series, which is a totally awesome 2012-2014 remake of the 1974 Space Battleship Yamato "Quest For Iscandar" series.

(If any of you were Star Blazers fans back in the day, please PM me so I can tell you more about Yamato: 2199. I don't want to hijack this thread any further.)

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Damn! Star Blazers, it's been years since I have heard that title. Thanks, that's definitely a nice memory of a 12 or 13 year old SciFi geek running home from school to catch the next episode.

But, to stay on topic, Captain Avatar and the Star Blazers were known cheaters. For "the earth to survive" he frequently lowered the air pressure of the Argo, filmed 'Lysis' tactics from disallowed angles, as well as illegal black tiger formations (yes, I did a quick Google to refresh the memory on some of the Star Blazer jargon ).

Being told about it doesn't mean he "noticed it". He might mean he didn't see or touch a ball that lacked inflation.

moejr said:

As I thought about this it should be noted that there is also going to be differences between pressure gauges. They do state a margin of error on the package when you buy them.

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I'm gonna take a guess that the pressure gauges the NFL uses have a narrower margin of error than the tire gauges you buy at AutoZone.

Pv = nrt folks. The nfl needs a refresher course.

It's not the temp difference during the game, it's the temp difference from when and where the ball was pumped up to when it's measured.

karguy85 said:

So I read Kravitz's most recent article which states that D'Qwell Jackson, who intercepted the Brady pass, did not notice a difference between the size of the ball he intercepted and Colts' balls. This flies in the face of the Schefter report I discussed earlier in the thread (from ESPN NFL Insiders) that the Colts noticed deflated balls in the game at Lucas Oil after the interceptions and noticed the same thing this time after picking off Brady again. To me, this seems like a ton of hot air. I am not really seeing any smoke or fire as of yet.

On another note, the article is written by Kravitz, but he quotes himself and refers to himself in the third person. I find that extremely weird...

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Gonna bump this post.

kennyb said:

It's not the temp difference between kickoff and measure point. It's the difference between when and where it was pumped up and measure point. Water saturation in air also would tend to lower pressure.

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The moisture in the air should have relatively little effect on the pressure inside the ball, since you have to assume that it is, effectively, "airtight."

Dr Pain said:

Guy-Lussac's Law.

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It's actually Gay-Lussac.

kennyb said:

Pv = nrt folks. The nfl needs a refresher course.

It's not the temp difference during the game, it's the temp difference from when and where the ball was pumped up to when it's measured.

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Also big men falling on ball means lost PSI. There is nothing here unless they have proof someone deflated the ball. Less PSI means nothing by itself. Doesn't mater if the ball popped. This is a travesty and shows the ignorance of a dome team in from a science denying state.

Edit, the balls are not air tight. Left alone in time they deflate because they are permeable. Gronk falling on does the same.

yes Gay not Guy

Not sure if this was already posted

ctpatsfan77 said:

The moisture in the air should have relatively little effect on the pressure inside the ball, since you have to assume that it is, effectively, "airtight."



It's actually Gay-Lussac.

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Wouldn't the moisture outside the ball affect the measured psi if the moisture inside the ball was much less? Because it was inflated with drier air?

leave it to our own media to make it rain on its own fans

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/felger-defensive-overreaction-over-deflate-gate

https://twitter.com/RobGronkowski/status/557394981930168320

So D'Qwell Jackson touches one football and thinks it's deflated; officials touch footballs dozens of times in the first half and notice nothing.

Got it.

kennyb said:

Suppose they can't prove they're innocent. Suppose there's no evidence they did anything wrong.

Suppose the only evidence is some balls that are slightly low in air pressure. Which might have happened naturally. Or not.

Then what? Then they can't prove they're innocent and can't prove they didn't "know" the balls were amiss. So they're guilty.

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Kenny I suggest embracing the reputation. We are the bad seed that gets the glory through ruining the wholesome fun for everyone else. We're are like the guys who have the good looking girl hanging around at the poker game to check cards and send signals back. We are like the guys who see a huge line at the ticket counter and, instead of waiting in line, we spread the rumor Kim Kardashian is standing outside (the masses run out to see -- now we are first in line). We are the guys who have the bachelor pad yet have 22 verifiable dependents exactly at tax time, and one very awesome and otherwise unaffordable trip to the Seychelles at tax refund time. We are the guys who when a score must be had to win, we jam radio signals, deflate balls, confuse the refs from performing their rightful task, take pictures of the opposition, use trickery and mind games to try and make it happen.
How is that not adding to the entertainment??

Even if you can't embrace that, I assure you: the noise of the masses will not cause any actual harm, you still get to watch the game of games (the Super Bowl) with greater enjoyment than nearly everyone who is certain 'we're the bad guys', and if a SB victory lap happens it will still taste as sweet as any.

kennyb said:

Wouldn't the moisture outside the ball affect the measured psi if the moisture inside the ball was much less? Because it was inflated with drier air?

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Disclaimer: Chemistry geek.

For equal temperatures and volumes, pressure is a function of the number of gas particles present; to a first approximation, it does not depend on their nature. In other words, if the pressure outside the football is, say, 14.7 PSI, it doesn't matter whether it's dry air, saturated air, or pure helium; all that matters is that the pressure is 14.7 PSI. Normal atmospheric pressure differences change that number by about 0.2 PSI or so, so it's not going to make a drastic difference one way or the other.

ctpatsfan77 said:

Disclaimer: Chemistry geek.

For equal temperatures and volumes, pressure is a function of the number of gas particles present; to a first approximation, it does not depend on their nature. In other words, if the pressure outside the football is, say, 14.7 PSI, it doesn't matter whether it's dry air, saturated air, or pure helium; all that matters is that the pressure is 14.7 PSI. Normal atmospheric pressure differences change that number by about 0.2 PSI or so, so it's not going to make a drastic difference one way or the other.

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Normal atmospheric pressure differences?
Not sure. But if balls were 12 psi instead of 12.5 psi, that could be the extent of underinflation. So .2 psi is significant if so.

But the temperature change could be as much more. 12.5 PSI at 72 degrees at measurement inside or under a field heater would mean 11.8 at 40 degrees after half time. Then throw this in and a bunch of Gronking and every ball was under the 12.5 required at the time of measurement by then. Nothing wrong with that. It is science and playing outside, both things the Colts would not get.

We need more local writers making a mockery of the sore losing Colts and turn this around to what it really is, sour grapes

http://www.boston.com/sports/column...usations_of_the_patriots_ways_of_cheatin.html

The message is that the Colts are so ignorant of science and playing anywhere outside of a dome they don't understand that Gay-Lussac's Law, the scientific law that shows the correlation between temperature change and PSI, proves it would be impossible for a football to maintain its tested PSI as temperatures drop never mind large men squash it. I also think they get freaked out because it has a word in the law they don't like in hicksville. Send this message forth. Ridicule the Colts for their ignorance, soft dome life and homophobia.

Dr Pain said:

But the temperature change could be as much more. 12.5 PSI at 72 degrees at measurement inside or under a field heater would mean 11.8 at 40 degrees after half time. Then throw this in and a bunch of Gronking and every ball was under the 12.5 required at the time of measurement by then. Nothing wrong with that. It is science and playing outside, both things the Colts would not get.

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That makes sense, although I have no idea of what formula you're using; I may have known it once, but I last studied chemistry during the first term of the Nixon Administration. And I never actually took a class in thermodynamics ...

But please then tell me -- we're usually told that the ball gets harder in cold weather, not softer. What's that all about?

Follow the blue ball to find your answer...