Pete Carroll

I think he was a better coach here than given credit for. I think the Pats were definitely in decline after Parcells stole Curtis Martin but with Pete we were more or less in contention at least until the second half of 1999.

HYPOTHETICAL IF - he had stuck around and the Pats don't get BB.... do they do the QB switch? I don't see us winning any titles but still think we'd be pretty good. Would be fascinating to see what that would have looked like if we had an alternate reality machine...

Dunno, but when BB retires, maybe Pete should come back?

buile said:

Dunno, but when BB retires, maybe Pete should come back?

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Possible, but Carroll is older than BB.

The draft in Petes years were terrible. The only player that ended up being good was Kevin Faulk - but I think he may have been drafted in 2000 - the same year as Brady.

With that said, I don't think Pete had control in New England -like he does in Seattle.

mosi said:

The draft in Petes years were terrible. The only player that ended up being good was Kevin Faulk - but I think he may have been drafted in 2000 - the same year as Brady.

With that said, I don't think Pete had control in New England -like he does in Seattle.

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Bingo. Booby Grier was picking the talent here then and was horrible. He strapped PC and his staff with a bunch of losers. Now that Pete has more control look at the team he has helped to build. I always thought PC got a raw deal here but actually love the outcome of him getting that raw deal.

mosi said:

The draft in Petes years were terrible. The only player that ended up being good was Kevin Faulk - but I think he may have been drafted in 2000 - the same year as Brady.

With that said, I don't think Pete had control in New England -like he does in Seattle.

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Back then Pete didn't have the political and administrative skills that he does now. Notorious Bobby Grier emerged from the Tuna days and promptly drove this team into the ground. Bad cap management. Bad drafting. Bad leadership. Bad everything. Undercut Pete (see Terry Glenn) when he could.

Prime reason why BB canned his butt 5 days after the 2000 draft.

If it's true that Parcells slammed the door after Kraft gave Grier the go ahead to take Terry Glenn instead of Duane Clemons, then you have to credit Terry Glenn, Lawyer Milloy, Tedy Bruschi, Robert Edwards, Greg Spires, Damien Woody, Kevin Faulk, Andy Katzenmoyer. Other guys like Brandon Mitchell and Tebucky Jones actually started on the Patriots SB 2001 team. Sean Morey played many years as a STer in the NFL. That's 11 guys in 4 drafts, which isn't good but it isn't bad either. Remember, the Patriots still had Ben Coates, Willie McGinest, Ty Law, Ted Johnson, Troy Brown and Bruce Armstrong on the team.

upstater1 said:

If it's true that Parcells slammed the door after Kraft gave Grier the go ahead to take Terry Glenn instead of Duane Clemons, then you have to credit Terry Glenn, Lawyer Milloy, Tedy Bruschi, Robert Edwards, Greg Spires, Damien Woody, Kevin Faulk, Andy Katzenmoyer. Other guys like Brandon Mitchell and Tebucky Jones actually started on the Patriots SB 2001 team. Sean Morey played many years as a STer in the NFL. That's 11 guys in 4 drafts, which isn't good but it isn't bad either. Remember, the Patriots still had Ben Coates, Willie McGinest, Ty Law, Ted Johnson, Troy Brown and Bruce Armstrong on the team.

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Close. The world according to Willie McDonough....

http://www.boston.com/globe/packages/year_in_review/sports/parcellsquits.htm

Keep in mind that Tuna had outstanding scouts and FO guys that helped him set the board. Charlie Armey and hired BB in Feb of 1996 to help with scouting. Those guys set the draft board. All BG did was pick the players based on the value system that they defined. Thats why I don't really give BB credit for the guys in bold

Pete was a horrible coach when he was here. People forget how many times Bledsoe had to burn time outs because they were so slow to get the play into him. I remember times when he would have Bledsoe take a knee with something like a minute and a half left in the half. He was a pom pom cheerleader on the sidelines with poor situational awareness.

The Pete Carroll of 2015 is a far better head coach than he was in 1999. But now that he is a good coach, people are trying to put lipstick on the pig that was his Patriots' head coaching tenure. Yes, the Bobby Grier drafts were horrible, but the core of that team was from the Parcells era.

Maybe if the play clock was something like a minute back in the 90s, but his sidelines were a disorganized mess most game days.

Carroll also lost the locker room. I remember Bledoe leading a late comeback, they had the defense reeling, the team sprinted down to snap the ball, and Pete called a TO, killing momentum. I forget what WR it was, but he was looking at Pete incredulously, like, WTF did you do that? It showed a huge lack of respect for Pete. Bledsoe was livid.

Rob0729 said:

Pete was a horrible coach when he was here. People forget how many times Bledsoe had to burn time outs because they were so slow to get the play into him. I remember times when he would have Bledsoe take a knee with something like a minute and a half left in the half. He was a pom pom cheerleader on the sidelines with poor situational awareness.

The Pete Carroll of 2015 is a far better head coach than he was in 1999. But now that he is a good coach, people are trying to put lipstick on the pig that was his Patriots' head coaching tenure. Yes, the Bobby Grier drafts were horrible, but the core of that team was from the Parcells era.

Maybe if the play clock was something like a minute back in the 90s, but his sidelines were a disorganized mess most game days.

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besides drafts, grier undermined him by letting players come to him with grievances about the coach. also, his s cal cheerleader personna was openly laughed at by the players and media.

Maybe give him control of the operation and time to learn how to act like a pro and the east coast mindset and he would have turned it around in about ten years.

The team got worse every year and the morale was terrible and Kraft also had a lot to do with it.

Giving control to belichick and getting rid of grier solved about a million problems.

RayClay said:

besides drafts, grier undermined him by letting players come to him with grievances about the coach. also, his s cal cheerleader personna was openly laughed at by the players and media.

Maybe give him control of the operation and time to learn how to act like a pro and the east coast mindset and he would have turned it around in about ten years.

The team got worse every year and the morale was terrible and Kraft also had a lot to do with it.

Giving control to belichick and getting rid of grier solved about a million problems.

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Yes, Grier undermined him, but the game was too big for him back then. It has been 15 years since he was head coach here. He matured as a head coach. A lot of good and great head coaches started out as mediocre to bad ones.

Personally, I think going to the college level helped him a lot. It allowed him to grow as a game manager where the speed of the game wasn't as fast as it is in the NFL. I think that is why he is a much better coach today than he was back in 1998 and 1999.

RayClay said:

besides drafts, grier undermined him by letting players come to him with grievances about the coach. also, his s cal cheerleader personna was openly laughed at by the players and media.

Maybe give him control of the operation and time to learn how to act like a pro and the east coast mindset and he would have turned it around in about ten years.

The team got worse every year and the morale was terrible and Kraft also had a lot to do with it.

Giving control to belichick and getting rid of grier solved about a million problems.

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I recall after a game, Ron Forgeus was grilling Carroll after a bad loss and being a total arse in the process. Pom-Pom was respectful and basically said that they'll work to improve...

Fast forward to 2001 and Forgus pulled the same line with BB during the whole Bledoe/Brady situation and Bill quipped, "Look if you want to be belligerent that's your problem. Not mine.".

Pete says it's "personal" against the Patriots.

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...ill-belichick-praises-coach-he-took-over-for/

One thing for sure about Pete: one of his press conferences has more verbiage than 100 of BB's.

The reason Pete chose Seattle over any other destination was because Seattle was the only place willing to give him complete power. He feels like his past failures were because he was limited.

The GM is basically a glorified adviser but Pete really does listen to him (Schneider convinced pete to take Wilson). At the end of the day Pete has final say on everything.

It was the opposite in SF with Harbug and Balke.

I think Pete Carroll even admitted in an interview once that he was too soft here and used it as a lesson learned to improve. Great coaches learn from their mistakes, in that sense he was always great. But when he was here he was still learning.

Both Pete and BB are perfectly suited for the owners, organizations, and cultures in which they operate. Both are real opposites in how they operate as coaches.

However, the one similarity between the two is that they're both extremely competitive and aggressive coaches.

upstater1 said:

Carroll also lost the locker room. I remember Bledoe leading a late comeback, they had the defense reeling, the team sprinted down to snap the ball, and Pete called a TO, killing momentum. I forget what WR it was, but he was looking at Pete incredulously, like, WTF did you do that? It showed a huge lack of respect for Pete. Bledsoe was livid.

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Actually, it was the other way around : Carroll wanted to call a timeout, but the players on the field didn't. Terry Glenn was just inches from Carroll, saw him trying to get the timeout, and just ignored him. They ran the play and didn't call the timeout.
It was against the Dolphins in 1998, the game Bledsoe broke his index finger, if memory serves me well. MNF cameras caught Glenn looking at Carroll and ignore him.

I don't think Carroll was that bad a coach during his time in New England. Looking back at the 1999 team, the talent just wasn't there, and they still finished 8-8. Belichick knew there wasn't enough talent, and had to overhaul the whole team, which lead to a 5-11 season in 2000. So even Belichick couldn't do better than Carroll with the talent that was there at the time.

I also believe that both Belichick and Carroll learned a lot on how to handle the media better from their previous head coaching job, and it helped them tremendously. Belichick tried to be Parcells with the media in Cleveland and it didn't work. Carroll was just too soft in New England, took a lot more blame than he should have, and it probably gave the players the impression they could get their way with him at times.