Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again

PatriotSeven said:

Where? The only thing I said is that it seems to me we are specifically being investigated for it, and it's not just standard procedure, and then sources came out afterwards and are backing that and the original source.

I think they can be proven to be innocent, or better said not guilty. And I most certainly hope it's not guilty. And no I wouldn't assume they knew, unless proven otherwise.

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Suppose they can't prove they're innocent. Suppose there's no evidence they did anything wrong.

Suppose the only evidence is some balls that are slightly low in air pressure. Which might have happened naturally. Or not.

Then what? Then they can't prove they're innocent and can't prove they didn't "know" the balls were amiss. So they're guilty.

TheBostonStraggler said:

Clandestine deflating of the footballs for the purpose of cheating the sanctity of the 45-7 game? LOL, wow. Note to BB, if you're down one score in the SB, deep in your own end, and less than a minute to go, please do the old 'nothing up my sleeve' switcheroo with the ball in favor of your special helium filled ball. Now let Brady throw an 80 yard pass in the air to Minitron (call it Flubber-gate?).

As another poster eluded to, we are a country too full of dumb people. People who believe their visceral feeling is an actual well thought out conclusion that needs to be fought for to the bitter end (That damn BB keeps winning a lot! He must be cheating! It's the formations, it's the footballs, it's the pictures, it's the whole damn thing! Waaaaaa...)

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I believe that, at this point, Flubber is not against the rules of football as specifically laid out in the Rules of Play published by the National Football League.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

So the Panthers heated balls, a direct violation that WAS in the rulebook, and Goodell's solution was to educate them without so much as a slap on the wrist. But if the Patriots are found guilty then it isn't even about the rulebook any more, and they once again they will be the poster child for all evil in the NFL.

I really, truly, hate Goodell. He is an inconsistent hypocrite at best and a conniving weasel at least.

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Selective punishment based on your accomplishment levels.

If they don't want to punished they should try sucking.

It works for the Rats.

Bobsyouruncle said:

But how? The Patriots hand the balls to the officials who test and control them. You need to come up with some absurdly ludicrous evil empire ninja **** to come up with how they then managed to sneak in and intentionally deflate a couple of balls while the balls were sitting on the sideline in front of a national audience under NFL control.

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If Florio is correct (I know, I know, but in this case it's something easy enough to verify), the ball attendants are team employees, not NFL employees. So no Ocean's 11 type stuff needed in that case.

Oh God got this from reddit lmao

I would like the POS commissioner to explain why he burnt the tapes after leaking one to his wife's TV station. I think we have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a fair shake from the Jet's stooge. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a ploy to take the heat of the Jets tampering.

PatriotSeven said:

Where? The only thing I said is that it seems to me we are specifically being investigated for it, and it's not just standard procedure, and then sources came out afterwards and are backing that and the original source.

I think they can be proven to be innocent, or better said not guilty. And I most certainly hope it's not guilty. And no I wouldn't assume they knew, unless proven otherwise.

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This is exactly the point.
The league investigates the balls taken out of play as a routine procedure.
Some Indy writer asked about the ball being taken out of play, and was told the league would investigate, as they always do.
He turned this into: The league is investigating that the Patriots deflated the ball and they could lose draft picks.
The league said they are investigating the matter, which would mean they are investigating the ball as they always do, and anything more than that is total speculation.
No credible source with direct knowledge has said there is any reason to suspect the Patriot were involved.
The media and social media has run with a deflated ball and turned it into the Patriots being involved in it.
No one has given any evidence of wrong doing, or in fact, even any evidence that the league suspects or will look into it.

You are propagating the Patriot hater rhetoric, and should be ashamed of yourself.

BTW, have you posted anything positive about yesterdays game yet?

If they don't have video or a confession of the ball boy letting air out then there's no proof.

The only caveat is that if there were many balls severely under inflated the nfl may say the preponderance of the evidence is against the pats.

How many bad balls? How underinflated?

PatriotSeven said:

Where? The only thing I said is that it seems to me we are specifically being investigated for it, and it's not just standard procedure, and then sources came out afterwards and are backing that and the original source.

I think they can be proven to be innocent, or better said not guilty. And I most certainly hope it's not guilty. And no I wouldn't assume they knew, unless proven otherwise.

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And you STILL have not explained how you think the Patriots manipulated the footballs. Ive lost track of how many times I've asked, maybe 3 or 4. Or this one:

Why would you say it's possible for us to be caught cheating?

What will be really interesting is if this came about because:

A) The Colts complained to the league and tipped reporter off; or,

B) The refs had to replace a ball and when they do that they have to file a report with the league about it; Indy coach got wind of this and tipped reporter off.

I find B) more probable than A) because if you're the Colts and file a complaint like that it just looks like sour grapes after a beatdown. Now had it been a close game like the Ravens you totally file the report and go "See we would have won but they cheated!"

And if the scenario is B) then it's a non-issue. It was a random ball to start the half that was off - either nefariously or randomly - and case closed.

But if it was A) and the league looks at all the Pats balls and all the Colts balls and there is difference in psi between the sets then we have our worst case scenario scandal and Lord help us.

Based on BB and Brady's reactions though, it seems like non-issue. And btw, if Brady really did first hear about this when asked on his WEEI appearance, wtf is the Pats PR staff doing??? You let your star player on the air without briefing him about a potential scandal. I'm sure Brady had a nice friendly chat with Pats PR after that call.

kennyb said:

Suppose they can't prove they're innocent. Suppose there's no evidence they did anything wrong.

Suppose the only evidence is some balls that are slightly low in air pressure. Which might have happened naturally. Or not.

Then what? Then they can't prove they're innocent and can't prove they didn't "know" the balls were amiss. So they're guilty.

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So now the league is a 'Guilty till proven innocent' kangaroo court?

kennyb said:

If they don't have video or a confession of the ball boy letting air out then there's no proof.

The only caveat is that if there were many balls severely under inflated the nfl may say the preponderance of the evidence is against the pats.

How many bad balls? How underinflated?

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If there were many balls severely underinflated, it would have come up during the game.
Still trying to figure out why we would want to play against an inferior team with a ball that is unlike any we ever practiced with.

LuRkeR1978 said:

So now the league is a 'Guilty till proven innocent' kangaroo court?

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According to patsfan7's version of justice that's what they should do.

AndyJohnson said:

This is exactly the point.
The league investigates the balls taken out of play as a routine procedure.
Some Indy writer asked about the ball being taken out of play, and was told the league would investigate, as they always do.
He turned this into: The league is investigating that the Patriots deflated the ball and they could lose draft picks.
The league said they are investigating the matter, which would mean they are investigating the ball as they always do, and anything more than that is total speculation.
No credible source with direct knowledge has said there is any reason to suspect the Patriot were involved.
The media and social media has run with a deflated ball and turned it into the Patriots being involved in it.
No one has given any evidence of wrong doing, or in fact, even any evidence that the league suspects or will look into it.

You are propagating the Patriot hater rhetoric, and should be ashamed of yourself.

BTW, have you posted anything positive about yesterdays game yet?

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lol.. that is one involved, complex investigation of a ball.

Let's face it: Patriots probably are guilty of the same thing they did with Spygate, which is getting a minimal- if any- advantage at the cost of their fans suffering and their reputations tarnished all in the name of Belichick's unending risk-reward model which also includes risks and rewards of breaking rules. Sad, but true.

It is possible that at least this time there will be no smoking gun, and the question is whether the commissioner will still come down on them despite having no true evidence that they in fact were responsible for doctoring the balls.

tombonneau said:

What will be really interesting is if this came about because:

A) The Colts complained to the league and tipped reporter off; or,

B) The refs had to replace a ball and when they do that they have to file a report with the league about it; Indy coach got wind of this and tipped reporter off.

I find B) more probable than A) because if you're the Colts and file a complaint like that it just looks like sour grapes after a beatdown. Now had it been a close game like the Ravens you totally file the report and go "See we would have won but they cheated!"

And if the scenario is B) then it's a non-issue. It was a random ball to start the half that was off - either nefariously or randomly - and case closed.

But if it was A) and the league looks at all the Pats balls and all the Colts balls and there is difference in psi between the sets then we have our worst case scenario scandal and Lord help us.

Based on BB and Brady's reactions though, it seems like non-issue. And btw, if Brady really did first hear about this when asked on his WEEI appearance, wtf is the Pats PR staff doing??? You let your star player on the air without briefing him about a potential scandal. I'm sure Brady had a nice friendly chat with Pats PR after that call.

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I think more likely Kravitz, who surely has sources throughout the league asked one what was going on with the delay. He told him that the ball was irregular, so they replaced it and Kravitz decided that meant the Cheatriots must have done something, so he assumed they deflated the ball because it was raining.

Bobsyouruncle said:

Your argument is basically that since cheating is theoretically possible in some area, it is believable in all areas. I could say Tom Brady used X-Ray vision to read the Colts playbook, and if someone said it's ludicrous and impossible I could claim as you are that CHEATING IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE!

But how? The Patriots hand the balls to the officials who test and control them. You need to come up with some absurdly ludicrous evil empire ninja **** to come up with how they then managed to sneak in and intentionally deflate a couple of balls while the balls were sitting on the sideline in front of a national audience under NFL control. Or how they're culpable for controlling the minds of the officials charged with inspecting the balls. Not to mention how ludicrous it would be to begin with, so they deflate a couple of balls to provide some unmeasurable advantage. Then how do they get the NFL to use those balls over the other 20 or so? More Jedi mind tricks?

It's not that cheating per se is impossible. It's that this specific allegation requires the same team that faked the moon landing to team up with the guys that covered up the Kennedy assassination to come together with the CIA to pull off the coverup. And everybody knows those guys don't work together.

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I mean my argument is what it is. We're being investigated for it.

Now you are saying the act of deflating balls is impossible. Ok. How did Lane Kiffin do it?

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

lol.. that is one involved, complex investigation of a ball.

Let's face it: Patriots probably are guilty of the same thing they did with Spygate, which is getting a minimal- if any- advantage at the cost of their fans suffering and their reputations tarnished all in the name of Belichick's unending risk-reward model which also includes risks and rewards of breaking rules. Sad, but true.

It is possible that at least this time there will be no smoking gun, and the question is whether the commissioner will still come down on them despite having no true evidence that they in fact were responsible for doctoring the balls.

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I don't understand how there can be any verification one way or another absent a confession from the ball attendant. That being said, if Brady likes the balls at the minimum possible weight of inflation, and the cold weather causes a ball to naturally deflate a bit over the course of the game, it stands to reason that a ball might be slightly under the threshold required by the NFL. Does that rise to the level of illegality? Should the refs be responsible for noticing when this happens and instructing the attendant to to inflate the ball to the requirements? Just thinking aloud here.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

lLet's face it: Patriots probably are guilty of the same thing they did with Spygate, which is getting a minimal- if any- advantage at the cost of their fans suffering and their reputations tarnished all in the name of Belichick's unending risk-reward model which also includes risks and rewards of breaking rules. Sad, but true.

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And you base this conclusion on what?

Well, on Around the Horn, all of them seem to be taking the 'of course they did it' road, citing their many instances of cheating in the past. After all, as one of them pointed out, there was just last week against the Ravens.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

lol.. that is one involved, complex investigation of a ball.

Let's face it: Patriots probably are guilty of the same thing they did with Spygate, which is getting a minimal- if any- advantage at the cost of their fans suffering and their reputations tarnished all in the name of Belichick's unending risk-reward model which also includes risks and rewards of breaking rules. Sad, but true.

It is possible that at least this time there will be no smoking gun, and the question is whether the commissioner will still come down on them despite having no true evidence that they in fact were responsible for doctoring the balls.

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Yep. To take it further, it's not just possible, it could even be considered the logical thing to do.

Look the way I see it, there's isn't a more cold blooded, logical, and calculated coach in the NFL. And I don't believe Bill's goal is to win with honor or fairly. Obviously we already know that. It's simply to win. He likes to manipulate rules any way he can to give his team an advantage. A player is taught to commit a PI to save a touchdown. Coaches teach them how to hold without getting caught, and also teach them it's worth getting caught if it saves a touchdown. A coach like him would believe it's worth losing a draft pick, or picks, if they believed it would ensure a Superbowl appearance or win.

If Bill knows the worst case scenario, is a fine and a couple of draft picks, and he believes that he can cheat his way to a Superbowl, it's perfectly logical to do it. There is no way in hell any team can guarantee a trip to the Superbowl, by having a couple of extra draft picks.

If you know you're not going to get kicked out of the tournament, and if you know you're not going to have your trophies taken away, and the worst case scenario, is losing some draft picks and a fine...then it's just a good business decision. Makes perfect sense. The repercussions are not enough of a deterrent from doing it. Spygate didn't take away the trophies and neither did Bounty Gate.

Of course it actually means accepting that our goal is simply winning, not winning with honor or fairness. And that can sting, for me too as much as a lot of other fans.