Rulebook question: Cribbs muffed punt

brdmaverick · Jan 18, 2015

Hi,

I'm glad the Josh Cribbs muffed punt stood as a muffed punt, but correct me if I'm wrong.....

If a punt returner calls for a fair catch, doesn't he have every opportunity to make the catch? Translation: when a punt returner calls for a fair catch and does not catch the ball cleanly, isn't it true that the opposing team can only recover a 'muff' only after the ball hit the ground?

In this situation the Patriots player caught it before it hit the ground. Didn't we see this in a Steelers game years ago in which this ruling was applied?

I think we got away with one, but obviously it wasn't the difference.

QuantumMechanic · Jan 18, 2015

Returner has to be given a "reasonable chance" to recover. IMHO the ball bounced far enough that he had no "reasonable chance" to recover.

Ring 6 · Jan 18, 2015

brdmaverick said:
Hi,

I'm glad the Josh Cribbs muffed punt stood as a muffed punt, but correct me if I'm wrong.....

If a punt returner calls for a fair catch, doesn't he have every opportunity to make the catch? Translation: when a punt returner calls for a fair catch and does not catch the ball cleanly, isn't it true that the opposing team can only recover a 'muff' only after the ball hit the ground?

In this situation the Patriots player caught it before it hit the ground. Didn't we see this in a Steelers game years ago in which this ruling was applied?

I think we got away with one, but obviously it wasn't the difference.

Correcting you cuz you are wrong

PatriotReign · Jan 18, 2015

Funnily enough I recall a similar play in a game between the Texans and Titans in '09. Jacoby Jones muffed the punt and Jason McCcourty caught it. The officials called a penalty on Tennessee saying that the returner has every right to catch the football after calling a fair catch. The kicking team can only recover if the ball hits the ground. Not sure why it wasn't called here.

Gronk · Jan 18, 2015

I think "reasonable chance" to catch it ends when it hits off your body and bounces away. If that's not the letter of the law, i'm glad it wasn't called not only because it benefited NE, but because when you watch the play it's the right call. He called FC. Was not obstructed. Didn't catch ball. Should be free regardless of whether it bounced.

Digit · Jan 18, 2015

I think the idea behind that was to prevent him being tackled while bobbling. But the ball bounced straight to another player, so 'reasonable chance' ended pretty quickly.

brdmaverick · Jan 18, 2015

I would agree that it seems like a bad rule, but I'm pretty sure the language was that the ball needs to hit the ground. I'd be surprised if a term such as 'reasonable chance' is used in the rulebook but obviously I don't know myself, so maybe it is. It would surprise me though.

Gronk · Jan 18, 2015

Digit said:
I think the idea behind that was to prevent him being tackled while bobbling. But the ball bounced straight to another player, so 'reasonable chance' ended pretty quickly.

Ended quickly. Such is life.

On a fair catch, I think catching it clean is a fair (and the only) solution to allowing the rule to continue. Bobbling the ball...sorry, not a fair catch. If we're not okay with that idea, then no more fair catches. Play it (meaning call FC and "catch" it), return it, or let that **** bounce.

God Ray Lewis might be a total ****bag but he's right when the rule book gets overly complicated it SUCKS. For everyone.

brdmaverick · Jan 18, 2015

Right, trust me, I'm glad the play was called as it was because I think that is the right thing to do. I was just curious if it technically went against the letter of the law.

brdmaverick · Jan 18, 2015

PatriotReign said:
Funnily enough I recall a similar play in a game between the Texans and Titans in '09. Jacoby Jones muffed the punt and Jason McCcourty caught it. The officials called a penalty on Tennessee saying that the returner has every right to catch the football after calling a fair catch. The kicking team can only recover if the ball hits the ground. Not sure why it wasn't called here.

Great Memory, I was just able to dig this up.........

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8136a6b6/Official-Review-Week-5

ctpatsfan77 · Jan 19, 2015

brdmaverick said:
I would agree that it seems like a bad rule, but I'm pretty sure the language was that the ball needs to hit the ground. I'd be surprised if a term such as 'reasonable chance' is used in the rulebook but obviously I don't know myself, so maybe it is. It would surprise me though.

Looking it up, the rulebook does in fact use that sort of language:

Muff. After a valid fair-catch signal, the opportunity to catch a kick does not end if the ball is muffed. The player who signaled for a fair catch must have a reasonable opportunity to catch the muffed ball before it hits the ground without interference by members of the kicking team, and regardless of whether the ball strikes another player or an official.

Fencer · Jan 19, 2015

ctpatsfan77 said:
Looking it up, the rulebook does in fact use that sort of language:

Right. Based on that text:

It is always OK for the kicking team to go after the ball after it hits the ground.
It is sometimes but not always OK for the kicking team to go after the ball before it hits the ground.

brdmaverick · Jan 19, 2015

Alright, wow, like I said, I'm surprised, but thanks for clearing that up. That's good too because the rule itself would have been a bad one b/c clearly the Cribbs muff would have clearly still been a muff without the Patriots making a play on the ball (aka there was no way Cribbs was catching it once it bounced off his face)

SacPete1 · Jan 19, 2015

Just to clarify, the Cribbs play was not ruled a muff. The refs determined after replay that Cribbs had possession and then he was down by contact before the ball came out. In the event of a muff call, the punt returner would never have been deemed to have had possession.

brdmaverick · Jan 19, 2015

SacPete1 said:
Just to clarify, the Cribbs play was not ruled a muff. The refs determined after replay that Cribbs had possession and then he was down by contact before the ball came out. In the event of a muff call, the punt returner would never have been deemed to have had possession.

I think you are talking about Indy's game against Denver in the Divisional Round. If so, I agree that he had possession.

In this thread we are talking about the Colts turnover that came when the ball hit off Cribbs face mask. He definitely never had possession on this play.

SacPete1 · Jan 19, 2015

brdmaverick said:
I think you are talking about Indy's game against Denver in the Divisional Round. If so, I agree that he had possession.

In this thread we are talking about the Colts turnover that came when the ball hit off Cribbs face mask. He definitely never had possession on this play.

LOL, you're right, my bad.....too much alcohol last night.

Ring 6 · Jan 19, 2015

Fencer said:
Right. Based on that text:

It is always OK for the kicking team to go after the ball after it hits the ground.

It is sometimes but not always OK for the kicking team to go after the ball before it hits the ground.

The rule does not limit in any way the defenses right to go after the ball, it just limits their right to interfere with interference with his opportunity to make the catch, which clearly was not something that happened on this play. The rule is there so you do not hit a fair catcher if he bobbles.

fourhour · Jan 19, 2015

Wow, 16 replies and I still don't know if the call was correct or not....

Ring 6 · Jan 19, 2015

fourhour said:
Wow, 16 replies and I still don't know if the call was correct or not....

It was correct, see my last post.

brdmaverick · Jan 19, 2015

fourhour said:
Wow, 16 replies and I still don't know if the call was correct or not....

I started on the other side of the argument and I, too, am convinced the correct call was made.

Rulebook question: Cribbs muffed punt

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