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The ineligible package...


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Actually, Chip Kelly ran that exact same thing at Oregon and I think did something similar in a pre-season game this year of all places.
 
I had to watch it over but the play flow is what sucked them in.

Play 1 hoomanawanui is ineligible, covered by Vareen who is eligible on the right side, after play stoppage for 12 man penalty. Neither hoomanawanui or vareen cross the LOS and Vareen does the whole arm thing here. 47 is reported as ineligible.

Play 2, patriots sub and break huddle, traditional 5 man front, hoomanawanui is off field so he will be eligible once he comes back Vareen in the back field.

Play 3, hoomanawanui is back and is eligible. 7:30 game clock 34 is ineligible is heard on the audio. Snap is at 7:22. So after Vareen informed the ref AND the ref informed the defensive captain, there were still 8 seconds on the clock. Also, there were 16 seconds on the play clock.

Play 4. Vareen is back as eligible. Here’s the funny best part. The only reason he did not have to come off the field is because of the foul on Harbaugh. I wonder if Bill left Vareen on the field as a rib to Harbaugh.
 
Isn't it interesting that both of the trick plays yesterday were specifically designed to make the defense pay for over-playing the receiver screen pass.

This suggests to me that the Pats have seen a trend over the latter part of the season of teams sitting on the wide receiver screens. These two plays not only worked, but they will certainly make defenses hesitate just a moment going hell-bent to attack the short screens.

It's the same penalty that defenses pay when they react forward to stop a Russell Wilson outside run.

BTW, I haven't made it through this whole thread yet, so pardon me if it's been mentioned. Kirwin and Miller on Sirius are saying that Belichick got the Verreen ineligible play from his buddy Nick Saban who ran it Alabama.
 
Apparently, they got the idea for the play from a similar thing the Lions did in week 6. So that whole 'nobody's every seen that before' thing Jim? Yeah, not so much.
 
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Apparently, they got the idea for the play from a similar thing the Lions did in week 6. So that whole 'nobody's every seen that before' thing Jim? Yeah, not so much.

Heard something about BB originally seeing it done by Saban.
 
Give Harbaugh a break...hes so busy covering for all the murderers and wife beaters and drug addicts on his team that he hasn't gotten any time to study the stupid NFL rulebook....krist, what do you people want?? for him to admit he LOST a game???:confused:
 
Apparently, they got the idea for the play from a similar thing the Lions did in week 6. So that whole 'nobody's every seen that before' thing Jim? Yeah, not so much.

His own freakin' brother ran a play where the left tackle caught a pass against the Cardinals last December. If you look at the pre-snap formation on that play, all the offensive linemen are in their usual spots. I'm sure the officials made the usual announcement about who was ineligible, but seems a lot more deceptive than putting a TE at left tackle.
 
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What I really like is how quickly Harbaugh reversed course when it became clear that he was clowning himself. In his presser, he talking about how it was a deceptive, illegal-type formation. Once he reviewed the tape enough to realize that any pee wee football player knows it's a legal formation, he changed his complaint to not having time to match substitutions. Which is also factually, objectively, self-evidently untrue.

And ****ing asinine, because they're two completely separate issues. Let's just look at them separately.

1) The formation issue
Look at Peter King's screenshot of the formation:

oEOGigO.jpg

Vereen was on the line of scrimmage, and so was Edelman outside of him. Since there must be seven men on the line, and only the two outside guys are eligible, that means that Vereen was clearly ineligible. If he'd run a route, the Pats would have been flagged for illegal formation (or maybe for illegal man downfield, depends on how they'd decided to call it). This is a basic, 101-level thing that the refs check for on every play, and that every defender on the field has been coached to look for on every play since high school at the latest.

Likewise, notice how LaFell and Amendola are both off the line up top. The result of that is that Hoomanawanui is the last man on the line, which makes him, by definition, an eligible receiver.

That's what keeps getting glossed over. The general understanding of the issue seems to be that, if Vereen hadn't declared ineligible, he would have been an eligible receiver, Hoomanawanui would have been a tackle, and that's that. Basically, that the entire sequence hinged on Vereen's declaration. But that's just not the case: the formation itself dictated that Vereen was ineligible and Hoomanawanui was eligible; he only had to declare as much because of the number he was wearing. Aside from that, the formation speaks for itself. It is always the case that the only eligible receivers on the LOS are the guys on the end, and in this formation it was Hooman and Edelman. Vereen was ineligible, whether or not he declared it.

A smarter, more aware defense would have recognized that and just left Vereen alone. The only reason to even consider defending him is if you're worried that the refs will miss it and blow the call, but the moment that he's declared ineligible even that reasoning is gone. This was a pretty elementary mistake, and while I can understand the players making it once in the heat of the moment (but not three times), I can't understand Harbaugh's failure to call a timeout and instruct his defense accordingly.


2) The substitution issue
When Kline came out of the game, the Ravens were given ample time to make their own corresponding substitutions. That's what the rulebook requires, and the Ravens absolutely got it, well after they (should have) realized the Pats only had four linemen in the huddle. The substitution rules are in place to ensure that the defense can match up to the offense's personnel, and the Ravens were given every chance to make substitutions to match the Pats' personnel.

What they weren't given was a bunch of extra time pre-snap to review the Pats' formation and try to figure out exactly what the Pats were doing. Which nobody was under any obligation to give them in the first place. If they weren't comfortable with their understanding of what's going on, that's what timeouts are for.

It's just a really stupid complaint coming from Harbaugh. He seems to be claiming that they were owed time to substitute after seeing the Patriots formation, which is stupid. They are owed time to make substitutions only when the Patriots make a substitution, and they got their time. If they were too dumb to notice that a lineman was being swapped out for a skill position player--which they 100% should have noticed, assumed something was up, and called a timeout shortly after the Pats came to the line and showed their hand--then that's just their own incompetence at work.
 
The more we learn about this, the more Harbaugh sounds like someone that was getting beaten and not knowing what to do...
 
What I really like is how quickly Harbaugh reversed course when it became clear that he was clowning himself. In his presser, he talking about how it was a deceptive, illegal-type formation. Once he reviewed the tape enough to realize that any pee wee football player knows it's a legal formation, he changed his complaint to not having time to match substitutions. Which is also factually, objectively, self-evidently untrue.

And ****ing asinine, because they're two completely separate issues. Let's just look at them separately.

1) The formation issue
Look at Peter King's screenshot of the formation:

oEOGigO.jpg

Vereen was on the line of scrimmage, and so was Edelman outside of him. Since there must be seven men on the line, and only the two outside guys are eligible, that means that Vereen was clearly ineligible. If he'd run a route, the Pats would have been flagged for illegal formation (or maybe for illegal man downfield, depends on how they'd decided to call it). This is a basic, 101-level thing that the refs check for on every play, and that every defender on the field has been coached to look for on every play since high school at the latest.

Likewise, notice how LaFell and Amendola are both off the line up top. The result of that is that Hoomanawanui is the last man on the line, which makes him, by definition, an eligible receiver.

That's what keeps getting glossed over. The general understanding of the issue seems to be that, if Vereen hadn't declared ineligible, he would have been an eligible receiver, Hoomanawanui would have been a tackle, and that's that. Basically, that the entire sequence hinged on Vereen's declaration. But that's just not the case: the formation itself dictated that Vereen was ineligible and Hoomanawanui was eligible; he only had to declare as much because of the number he was wearing. Aside from that, the formation speaks for itself. It is always the case that the only eligible receivers on the LOS are the guys on the end, and in this formation it was Hooman and Edelman. Vereen was ineligible, whether or not he declared it.

A smarter, more aware defense would have recognized that and just left Vereen alone. The only reason to even consider defending him is if you're worried that the refs will miss it and blow the call, but the moment that he's declared ineligible even that reasoning is gone. This was a pretty elementary mistake, and while I can understand the players making it once in the heat of the moment (but not three times), I can't understand Harbaugh's failure to call a timeout and instruct his defense accordingly.


2) The substitution issue
When Kline came out of the game, the Ravens were given ample time to make their own corresponding substitutions. That's what the rulebook requires, and the Ravens absolutely got it, well after they (should have) realized the Pats only had four linemen in the huddle. The substitution rules are in place to ensure that the defense can match up to the offense's personnel, and the Ravens were given every chance to make substitutions to match the Pats' personnel.

What they weren't given was a bunch of extra time pre-snap to review the Pats' formation and try to figure out exactly what the Pats were doing. Which nobody was under any obligation to give them in the first place. If they weren't comfortable with their understanding of what's going on, that's what timeouts are for.

It's just a really stupid complaint coming from Harbaugh. He seems to be claiming that they were owed time to substitute after seeing the Patriots formation, which is stupid. They are owed time to make substitutions only when the Patriots make a substitution, and they got their time. If they were too dumb to notice that a lineman was being swapped out for a skill position player--which they 100% should have noticed, assumed something was up, and called a timeout shortly after the Pats came to the line and showed their hand--then that's just their own incompetence at work.

Thank you! As a youth football coach our kids know that only the two outside guys on the LOS are eligible.If my 8th graders can figure it out I would think NFL players could as well. I won't even comment on the coach!
 
Absolutely. All players, eligible or not, can take a handoff or receive a backwards pass or lateral.

Shhh....

Note that Vereen was sprinting back and ended up behind Brady. A companion play coming? Declares ineligible, refs announce that the defense doesn't have to cover him. And, then he takes a backwards screen? Or end around?
 
Ineligible receiver: this is the perfect role for Aaron Dobson on next year's team.
 
Espn has an article up. Says the patriots did nothing wrong. Harbough should have called a timeout. At the bottom of the article, however, is this nugget:

Unreal. So tired of this ****. It is posted on Reiss' blog.

EDIT: I see they've now adjusted that part to say they filmed opponents illegally. Wonder who said something?


Believe it or not it was me, I went off on the guy who wrote it on Twitter, he actually fixed it and replied back to me!
 
I think this formation could actually see more use. At the very least I think teams would have no idea how to cover it. Here's some ideas I had (probably they're all terrible):

Screen to Gronk or Edelman
If the defense moves an extra guy off of Vereen's side to cover Hooman, the screen to Gronk or Edelman should be WIDE open, since you'll have two blockers and only two defenders on that side.

Screen to Vereen
Similar to above. Even though Vereen in this formation can't catch a forward pass, he can still catch a lateral.

HB Pass
Again similar to above, except this time you have Vereen actually pass the ball instead. If they overcommit to coming up and tackling him, he should be able to find someone wide open coming from left to right. Could also have Edelman and Vereen switch places here, since Edelman has the better arm.

Dumpoffs
You could actually have Hooman stay in and block as a left tackle (or replace him with a conventional left tackle) and actually use him as a dump off receiver if he gets beat, similar to what running backs will often do.

Dumpoff to Vereen
Similar idea maybe, Vereen can be used as a dumpoff receiver as long as he's behind Brady. Might find him completely uncovered.

Fake the Formation
Don't have Vereen declare ineligible, but initially line up in the same formation, confusing the defense. Then shift into a conventional formation and have Vereen be essentially uncovered.

QB Bootleg
Vereen here could be used as a crack blockers on a bootleg to his side. This could either leave the QB room to run or throw to a receiver working left to right.

Screen to left side of the formation
This formation could also potentially have an advantage running a screen to the left. Normally the LT can't advance down the field to block until after the pass, but in this formation he could actually advance up field freely, giving an advantage over the conventional formation.
 
@Richardheadl: @MikeReiss @SeifertESPN all credibility in article lost when it states Patriots taped opponents, it was taping signals from wrong location

@SeifertESPN: @Richardheadl It’s been clarified, thanks.
 
Fake the Formation
Don't have Vereen declare ineligible, but initially line up in the same formation, confusing the defense. Then shift into a conventional formation and have Vereen be essentially uncovered.

Nice brainstorming; but I think "Fake the Formation" will get you a flag: if you initially line up incorrectly, but then adjust, it's still an illegal formation.
 
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