As Good as it Gets

"This is the BEST group of players Tom Brady and Bill Belichick may ever take into a postseason"


This is the title and first few sentences on the main page of your Patsfans website here.......do you agree that this is the BEST GROUP OF PLAYERS that we have ever taken into a postseason?

I personally feel like our SB teams in 01-04 were better talented and coached.....what say u?

stcjones said:

"This is the BEST group of players Tom Brady and Bill Belichick may ever take into a postseason"


This is the title and first few sentences on the main page of your Patsfans website here.......do you agree that this is the BEST GROUP OF PLAYERS that we have ever taken into a postseason?

I personally feel like our SB teams in 01-04 were better talented and coached.....what say u?

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I don't think the 2001 team matches up in any way to this year's squad.

2003 and 2004? Decent receivers, but no Gronk. 2014, very good (LaFell) to really good (Edelman) receivers plus a healthy and absolutely dominant Gronk.

Dillon > Blount or Gray.
2014 Brady > 2003/2004 Brady

Also, I think this defense is the most talented from top to bottom that we've ever had.

So I agree.

Fixit said:

I don't think the 2001 team matches up in any way to this year's squad.

2003 and 2004? Decent receivers, but no Gronk. 2014, very good (LaFell) to really good (Edelman) receivers plus a healthy and absolutely dominant Gronk.

Dillon > Blount or Gray.
2014 Brady > 2003/2004 Brady

Also, I think this defense is the most talented from top to bottom that we've ever had.

So I agree.

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The defense may be the most talented on paper, but the 03/04 defenses were absolutely dominating. I don't think I put this team's defense quite in the same league as those two years.

The offense is probably more talented than any of the super bowl winners. All we can do is hang on and enjoy the ride.

Here's to another enjoyable post season birth!

woolster22 said:

The defense may be the most talented on paper, but the 03/04 defenses were absolutely dominating. I don't think I put this team's defense quite in the same league as those two years.

The offense is probably more talented than any of the super bowl winners. All we can do is hang on and enjoy the ride.

Here's to another enjoyable post season birth!

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I see what you're saying about the D, but I look at it this way. This year's D is becoming dominant (come playoff time!) in a league that's now completely biased towards offensive production.

Corey Dillon was on a TEAR like no other in 04

Fixit said:

I see what you're saying about the D, but I look at it this way. This year's D is becoming dominant (come playoff time!) in a league that's now completely biased towards offensive production.

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Fair enough, I don't think we will ever see defenses that dominate the game as in the past. Maybe the Seahawks/cardinals/pats are the current iteration of dominating defenses?

IMHO:
Better than 2001, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013. (the 09 thru 13 team weaknesses were too conspicuous)
Maybe, maybe not better than 2003, 2005, 2006. (I'd lean to 2 out of 3 being better than this year's team)
Not better than 2004, 2007.

The thing is, taking a well balanced team into the playoffs guarantees nothing. So much of the Patriot's roadmap for victory centers on efficiently moving the ball on offense. If you couple this efficient moving of the ball with this D and these STs???? The Patriots brings their A game 3 times in a row then the SB is there for the taking. I don't care who the opponent is, the Patriots will be difficult for anyone to beat. But this requires the OL to play 3 solid games in a row too. If they don't then it doesn't really matter how good the team 'was' overall. The Patriots aren't going to beat the best opponents out there if every other time Brady drops back he is being tackled, hit, pushed, harassed and generally unable to let patterns develop. It will, IMHO, be the Patriots' 2014 epitaph....

The 2001 team wasn't the most talented, they caught lightning in a bottle.

2003 offense was mediocre, but the defense was great (#1 I believe). many think the running game in 2003 was great, but it wasn't. They were very talented though, with few weaknesses.

2004 was one of the most complete teams, probably ever. Talent wise, I would put this team only behind the 2004 team.

Just to clear that up too, my premise was that this is the best team that they may take into the postseason over the span that they've been trying to win a fourth title and have come up short. Granted like everyone else, I do think there were some areas that were better in past championship seasons (Dillon was a beast and his value was immense). But, as I mentioned, I think Edelman and Gronk are a stronger combination in terms of talent and athleticism compared to any other tandem. I kind of sat here last night as I was writing it and went down the list and while a lot of guys were really good, these two are just terrific.

But TheBostonStraggler's post kind of sums up the point I was looking to make. As they try and squeeze out a title over these final years, I don't know if they'll have another group as talented as this - or as healthy - to work with. And that's why I wrote that I think this is about as good as it's going to get, because honestly, if they can't win with this bunch, it will make you wonder what it's going to take to push them over the top since this is a pretty talented group from top to bottom. Although, I, like everyone else, am obviously worried about the offensive line, which will be the biggest question mark heading into the postseason.

Fixit said:

Also, I think this defense is the most talented from top to bottom that we've ever had.

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I disagree. The 2003 team was the best defense in Patriots history and may be one of the most underrated defenses in NFL history. People forget how many games the Pats won that year when the offense scored 20 points or less. The Pats won five games that year without scoring 20 points. Three of them they didn't score a TD and scored 12 points or less. Another, they scored 19, but needed overtime to get to that many points. The defense carried the team in 2003.

And of course that team had tons of talent - Law, McGinest, Bruschi, Harrison, Seymour, Vrabel, Ted Washington, etc.

I expect Connolly to start at LG and the O line starters to be Solder, Connolly, Stork,Wendell and Vollmer with Gronk at TE. This lineup was more than solid over a stretch of games until Connolly got concussed.

My biggest question is the ability of the wideouts to get consistent yards downfield on the outside.

Dillons value was way more then people give him credit for that year/playoff run. Some of those runs he made when i was looking on youtube the other day...wow

Joker said:

I expect Connolly to start at LG and the O line starters to be Solder, Connolly, Stork,Wendell and Vollmer with Gronk at TE. This lineup was more than solid over a stretch of games until Connolly got concussed.

My biggest question is the ability of the wideouts to get consistent yards downfield on the outside.

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JK, the wideout picture is definitely not an overall pie in the sky rosy one. However -- assuming the OL plays satisfactory -- this is where (I hope) the importance of Gronk comes into play. The attention he'll get makes the wideout coverage on JE and LaFell a little less blanketing (it will be up to JE and LaFell to win some one on one battles). Yet if the opposing D can shut down the wideouts and shutdown Gronk? It comes down to one of or a combination of one of these three things; (1) Tim Wright will put up a lot of catches (something I have been expecting to happen). (2) Amendola has a 10+ catch game. (3) Gray/Blount/Vereen pile up some rushing yards/make the D pay for their emphasis on the passing game.
If none of these three happen then it's onto point 4: It's going to be a lllooonnnggg day for us Patriot fans and an early start to the conversation on what the 2015 team will be.

Ian said:

Just to clear that up too, my premise was that this is the best team that they may take into the postseason over the span that they've been trying to win a fourth title and have come up short. Granted like everyone else, I do think there were some areas that were better in past championship seasons (Dillon was a beast and his value was immense). But, as I mentioned, I think Edelman and Gronk are a stronger combination in terms of talent and athleticism compared to any other tandem. I kind of sat here last night as I was writing it and went down the list and while a lot of guys were really good, these two are just terrific.

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Agreed. I also think LaFell is productive enough to mention his name as a trio. And, arguably, the lower down spots of Vereen, Amendola and Wright are targets that have shown they can produce. While this group doesn't have that Moss type threat, it is a numerous in players that have shown they can produce.

Except for 07 I think your overall point is correct. Provided the OL plays like the week 6 thru week 13 OL, the 2014 Patriots do not have a noticeable weak spot (though Pass Rush is ????). This isn't to say the Patriots are wildly potent in every area, it is to say they are satisfactory to very good in just about every area. Can't say that about any Patriot team going back to the mid 2000s (with the exception, IMHO, of 07 ).

Who's better Law or Revis?

patriot1136 said:

Who's better Law or Revis?

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LOL, that could take up a completely different thread. But truthfully the Patriots had Law and Revis during completely different stages of their careers. Law during his prime was pretty terrific, and we've only seen Revis in-depth this year, although I'm sure any die-hard Jets fan would likely be able to sit down for hours and point out plenty of moments of some of the amazing plays he's made that would really open this debate up further - but then again, that would require me sitting down with a Jets fan for hours...which can't happen

But that's definitely a topic that could go on for a while. Although Revis may end up writing his own story during this postseason that would further increase the arguments for those who will want to compare him against Law, and hey, if he plays well, that would certainly be fine with me

Brady_to_Moss said:

Corey Dillon was on a TEAR like no other in 04

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Here! Here! AMEN TO THAT

He played out of his mind.......I'll never forget when he stiff-armed Sam Adams from the Bills and threw him to the ground.......all 320+ lbs of him...

Then my favorite wasn't a big run but man did it sum up his style....it was a stretch run to the outside and he got the corner and turned it up for about 15 yards. As the safety came in to deliver a punishing blow, instead of going out of bounds and taking the safe route, Dillon turns the table and lowers the boom. One of the most violent collisions ever ensued with the safety getting knocked back about 8 yards on his arse and pieces of helmet flying everywhere with Dillon gaining an additional 5 yards. The sound was like a home-run ball leaving a bat.....I went nuts.

Dillon was old-school but Blount gives me some flashbacks.....

This years D is more talented but the 03-04 D was a better unit playing together

Ian said:

LOL, that could take up a completely different thread. But truthfully the Patriots had Law and Revis during completely different stages of their careers. Law during his prime was pretty terrific, and we've only seen Revis in-depth this year, although I'm sure any die-hard Jets fan would likely be able to sit down for hours and point out plenty of moments of some of the amazing plays he's made that would really open this debate up further - but then again, that would require me sitting down with a Jets fan for hours...which can't happen

But that's definitely a topic that could go on for a while. Although Revis may end up writing his own story during this postseason that would further increase the arguments for those who will want to compare him against Law, and hey, if he plays well, that would certainly be fine with me

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Look, I like Ty Law a lot. He came up big in some important games, but as good as he was, he is not the equal of Revis and it is unlikely that that he will ever make Canton. He was twice selected All Pro and made the Pro Bowl five times. Revis has now made All Pro five times. For comparison, ex-Patriot Mike Haynes, who is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, was All Pro five times and sent to the Pro Bowl nine times.

The Patriots no longer have Corey Dillon... but they have Blount (and Gray)

The Patriots no longer have Randy Moss... but they have Brandon LaFell

The Patriots no longer have Aaron Hernandez... but they have Tim Wright

And Faulk is gone, but they have Vereen; Welker is gone, but they have Edelman...

The point is, since Brady took over we've seen a healthy variety of Pats' offenses. The offense they have now is, essentially, a 'jack of all trades' in that it can do anything these old offenses did, just not quite as well.

Much like the defense, it's essentially a vast variety of chess pieces that might only be effective in the hands of a quality coach. Somebody like a Bill Belichick, you know?

In the BB era, for sheer overall talent in their athletic primes that still produced at a high-level, my vote is 2004 (I am including players that were injured - such as Law).

For example, while Dillon wasn't in his athletic prime in 2004, he was all-pro caliber.

2003 didn't have the firepower on offense that 04 did and 2007 didn't have the talent on the defensive side b/c they were a bit older (Bru, Rodney, no Law)