BB Doesn't Agree That JC91 is a bust and wasn't a need

But bethel had that 1 TD were i went...wow....so worth it

BradyFTW! said:

As far as how Collins is panning out relative to the rest of the '13 class, I think he's top 10 for sure. Hard to say much beyond that, lots of good defensive players in particular, plus a couple of awesome interior linemen (Frederick, Warford)

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After 2 seasons I'd have to rank Collins along with Ziggy Ansah and Sheldon Richardson as the best defensive players from the 2013 draft. Ansar went 5 overall, Richardson 13.

BelizePats said:

It's hard not to love this kid. I'm gonna buy a 91 jersey next week.

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I wanted to buy one when I was at the Razor but they did not have very many

Belichick doesn't know what he is talking about. And his Lawrence Taylor reference is laughable. Did Taylor have Tavon Wilson drafted the year before him? Of course not because if he did, he would have been the most talented bust to ever be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Bill makes as many Lawrence Taylor references as he possibly can. It's just what he does.

PATS16N0 said:

Bill makes as many Lawrence Taylor references as he possibly can. It's just what he does.

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Citation?

mayoclinic said:

After 2 seasons I'd have to rank Collins along with Ziggy Ansah and Sheldon Richardson as the best defensive players from the 2013 draft. Ansar went 5 overall, Richardson 13.

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Star Lotulelei and Desmond Trufant belong in that group as well, IMO.

Beyond that, the best players in that draft are interior linemen (Frederick, Warford), and RBs (Bell, Lacy) so they all get held back based on lack of positional value. You could maybe make a case for Keenan Allen or DeAndre Hopkins, but I don't really care to.

For value picks, Collins might be #1. The other main contenders, IMO, are Alex Okafor in the 4th and Andre Ellington in the 6th.

jboston19 said:

He just needs to work on consistency. It's exciting to have an lb on the Pats with his abilities.

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If he is not consistent then who is?

Brady_to_Moss said:

But bethel had that 1 TD were i went...wow....so worth it

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His kick off return right before half against the Colts really turned the game. Colts had just scored to get within one score and he immediately went 90+ yards for a TD. I can remember a few other plays where I went WOW, but he was just that a few WOWs and a lot of WHOAS......

I think its important for everyone to realize that as good as Collins looks now, we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg of his potential. What we are seeing now is how good an athlete he is and how exceptional his skills are. However over the next 3 or 4 years we are going to see this freakish athleticism develop into a smart and experienced football player. When that happens people will realized that what we are seeing now is just the beginning for this kid.

Think about it. While playing safety, LB and DE in successive years in college is a positive to some degree, he is really only in his 2nd year of experience in playing what he's he's playing. He is extremely raw at this point. There is a huge amount of of upside. The closest example I can think of to him experience wise is Tedy Bruschi, who came into the league as an undersized DE/DT, and it took him a full 4 or 5 years before he developed into an all pro ILB.

That's what makes Collins' future so exciting for me, because however good you might think he is now, what he will be in the future is going to be THAT much better.

BB has done a great job over the years picking solid if unspectacular picks in the first round. However on the other hand there have been a LOT of 2nd round picks which ranged from total bust, to just Jags. But that being said, very few teams draft players who develop into game changing players. It should be noticed that recently the Pats have added 2 such players....and both came to us in the middle of the 2nd round. Gronk has already proven to be such a player, and I strongly believe Collins will reach the same kind of recognition league wise within the next 2 years.

Will Bill let him just "do his thing" like he did with LT?

fnordcircle said:

Wasted draft pick, hopefully Kraft takes control of the draft away from this Belichick bum.

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@fnordcircle: are you actively trying to creep out the entire forum?

patfanken said:

I think its important for everyone to realize that as good as Collins looks now, we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg of his potential. What we are seeing now is how good an athlete he is and how exceptional his skills are. However over the next 3 or 4 years we are going to see this freakish athleticism develop into a smart and experienced football player. When that happens people will realized that what we are seeing now is just the beginning for this kid.

Think about it. While playing safety, LB and DE in successive years in college is a positive to some degree, he is really only in his 2nd year of experience in playing what he's he's playing. He is extremely raw at this point. There is a huge amount of of upside. The closest example I can think of to him experience wise is Tedy Bruschi, who came into the league as an undersized DE/DT, and it took him a full 4 or 5 years before he developed into an all pro ILB.

That's what makes Collins' future so exciting for me, because however good you might think he is now, what he will be in the future is going to be THAT much better.

BB has done a great job over the years picking solid if unspectacular picks in the first round. However on the other hand there have been a LOT of 2nd round picks which ranged from total bust, to just Jags. But that being said, very few teams draft players who develop into game changing players. It should be noticed that recently the Pats have added 2 such players....and both came to us in the middle of the 2nd round. Gronk has already proven to be such a player, and I strongly believe Collins will reach the same kind of recognition league wise within the next 2 years.

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Tedy Bruschi on Collins vs. the Bills:

“Beast. Beast, especially that play you’re talking about where he told that running back just to get out of my way and Kyle Orton back there running for his life trying to find him and he still comes. It’s just that type of effort. I mean, the sky is the limit for this kid. … He’s told what to do, he knows his responsibly and now he is showing you he has the instincts to take it to the next level and the effort and ability. It’s very exciting to watch.”

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http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...nse-will-have-to-pick-up-offense-in-playoffs/

The fact that guys like Bruschi and BB are so effusive about Collins is telling. Jay has it right. Collins is a transcendent talent. There is no one else with his combination of explosiveness and ability to play in space. He could be a Von Miller pass rusher if that's what he focused on, or a deep safety. He played 498 snaps in coverage this season (more than anyone other than McCourty and Revis) and allowed an opposing 52.3 QBR. No other player can do the things he can, and he's just beginning to hit his stride.

It's also a telling sign of how clueless people are that less than 3 months ago some were still calling him a "bad LB". He may well be the best LB in the NFL next year.

mayoclinic said:

Tedy Bruschi on Collins vs. the Bills:



http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...nse-will-have-to-pick-up-offense-in-playoffs/

The fact that guys like Bruschi and BB are so effusive about Collins is telling. Jay has it right. Collins is a transcendent talent. There is no one else with his combination of explosiveness and ability to play in space. He could be a Von Miller pass rusher if that's what he focused on, or a deep safety. He played 498 snaps in coverage this season (more than anyone other than McCourty and Revis) and allowed an opposing 52.3 QBR. No other player can do the things he can, and he's just beginning to hit his stride.

It's also a telling sign of how clueless people are that less than 3 months ago some were still calling him a "bad LB". He may well be the best LB in the NFL next year.

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It might be very early, but "transcendent" is the perfect word to describe this kids potential. Thanks for that.

Other than injury, my only fear that Collins doesn't end up getting the kind of recognition he deserves is BB. Think about it. Remember the old saying, "there was only one person who was able to keep Michael Jordon under 16 points per game...... Dean Smith .

It could be that Collins will never get the opportunities to rack up the kind of stats that gets people noticed. Unfortunately those incredible coverage stats are going to be rarely mentioned and people will point out that he has only 4 sacks. Next year, if he rushed the passer every play Collins would be a 20 sack guy. However in the Pats defensive scheme he will never get a chance to make enough aggressive plays like guys like Houston and Von Miller. Instead he will be in coverage or doing "controlled rushes"> The stuff that drives so many fans crazy, but is so important to the ultimate success of the team

patfanken said:

It might be very early, but "transcendent" is the perfect word to describe this kids potential. Thanks for that.

Other than injury, my only fear that Collins doesn't end up getting the kind of recognition he deserves is BB. Think about it. Remember the old saying, "there was only one person who was able to keep Michael Jordon under 16 points per game...... Dean Smith .

It could be that Collins will never get the opportunities to rack up the kind of stats that gets people noticed. Unfortunately those incredible coverage stats are going to be rarely mentioned and people will point out that he has only 4 sacks. Next year, if he rushed the passer every play Collins would be a 20 sack guy. However in the Pats defensive scheme he will never get a chance to make enough aggressive plays like guys like Houston and Von Miller. Instead he will be in coverage or doing "controlled rushes"> The stuff that drives so many fans crazy, but is so important to the ultimate success of the team

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Hopefully Collins cares about winning more than stats. Michael Jordan did win a national championship with Dean Smith, and it didn't seem to hurt his draft stock very much. I won't complain if Collins stays under the radar just a bit, especially until he signs his next contract. People can go on calling him a "bust" or a "bad LB", for all I care. He's a stud. If people need sack numbers to tell if a player is impactful, the more fool they.

jays52 said:

Calvin Johnson

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I love Collins but I don't know if I'd put him in there over Luke Kuechly.

Marqui said:

What about Luke Kuechly?

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Athletically speaking no. That was the reasoning behind the three other guys. Athletically they are completely off the charts for their positions. Don't get me wrong, Luke Kuechly is a good football player and a good athlete but there's plenty of linebackers more athletic than him in the league. Kuechly wins with good technique, awareness and what I would consider B+ athleticism for the position.

Marqui said:

I love Collins but I don't know if I'd put him in there over Luke Kuechly.

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jays52 said:

Athletically speaking no. That was the reasoning behind the three other guys. Athletically they are completely off the charts for their positions. Don't get me wrong, Luke Kuechly is a good football player and a good athlete but there's plenty of linebackers more athletic than him in the league. Kuechly wins with good technique, awareness and what I would consider B+ athleticism for the position.

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Kuechly is a different kind of player. He (and Lavonte David, too) is purely an "off-LOS LB". I don't think he has Collins' versatility or potential as a pass rusher, or the same degree of athleticism (though I'd say he is more an A- than a B+). But both Kuechly and David are elite at what they do.

jays52 said:

Athletically speaking no. That was the reasoning behind the three other guys. Athletically they are completely off the charts for their positions. Don't get me wrong, Luke Kuechly is a good football player and a good athlete but there's plenty of linebackers more athletic than him in the league. Kuechly wins with good technique, awareness and what I would consider B+ athleticism for the position.

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According to their combine numbers, Collins is more explosive but Kuechly is quicker, faster, and stronger.

Sfpat said:

I'm sure if one were to search the archives one would find many Collins is a wasted pick/bust etc type posts.

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I know I was shockd by the pick, but that was due to my lack of knowledge. I was so focused on us getting a good receiver, I was shocked by the Collins pick. That being said, once I did some research on him, and watched some highlights, I was super excited with the pick. I think I posted videos in the thread about Collins being picked.