WR in the 2015 draft

OhExaulted1 said:

Not sure why the big hype for Smelter. The Patriots need a ST/KR/PR guy. Tyler Lockett is the big name. Jamarcus Nelson is a guy I'm watching. We already have Jules, Lafell, Gronk and Wright. Amendola is signed as well. Slater is our gunner.

I just don't see Bill targeting a 6-3 225 guy who doesn't play ST's and has 56 career catches from Georgia Tech. A UDRFA flyer, I don't even see that.

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To each his own. I believe in split ends (6'2"+ 210#+ guys) who can move the chains and who are red zone threats. We've got plenty of small receivers in Edelman/Amendola/Boyce. If Amendola is cut or traded then I'm fine adding one of those guys, but I'd still prefer a bigger split end. Right now we have LaFell, Dobson and Tim Wright, who plays a hybrid move TE/split end role.

mayoclinic said:

To each his own. I believe in split ends (6'2"+ 210#+ guys) who can move the chains and who are red zone threats. We've got plenty of small receivers in Edelman/Amendola/Boyce. If Amendola is cut or traded then I'm fine adding one of those guys, but I'd still prefer a bigger split end. Right now we have LaFell, Dobson and Tim Wright, who plays a hybrid move TE/split end role.

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Thing is, the Pats, under Bill, have NEVER done that. Our split guys have always been TE's. Graham, Watson, The Prisoner, Wright. They just don't play that way. Lafell is the "feature" guy, Edelmen is the slot dude and the TE's and RB's (Gronk, Wright, Vereen) eat the rest of the grabs.

Dobson and Tyms are on the bubble this offseason. With how well Lafell has played I don't see this as a target. What we need, really, is a roadrunner with ST skills. The ability to make Punt/KR grabs who have 1). a history of ball security and decision making and b). good production after the return catch.

Bill never splits out 2 6-3 plus WR's on the end. It's just not part of his philosophy.

OhExaulted1 said:

Thing is, the Pats, under Bill, have NEVER done that. Our split guys have always been TE's. Graham, Watson, The Prisoner, Wright. They just don't play that way. Lafell is the "feature" guy, Edelmen is the slot dude and the TE's and RB's (Gronk, Wright, Vereen) eat the rest of the grabs.

Dobson and Tyms are on the bubble this offseason. With how well Lafell has played I don't see this as a target. What we need, really, is a roadrunner with ST skills. The ability to make Punt/KR grabs who have 1). a history of ball security and decision making and b). good production after the return catch.

Bill never splits out 2 6-3 plus WR's on the end. It's just not part of his philosophy.

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The 2007-2008 team had 6'4" Randy Moss and 6'2" Jabbar Gaffney. If Dobson had been healthy this year I think we would have seen plenty of that with him and LaFell. Tim Wright is used as much as a split end as a move TE.

I don't know if BB will do it, though he seems to have plenty of interest in 6'2"+ WRs recently. It's certainly what I would do. You're entitled to your own view, of course.

Gaffney, who I really liked, accumulated 85 catches for 1060 yards, over 3 seasons. Why no love or interest in the 5-10-11 guy with ST skills?

To each his own I guess. We took 1 WR last year in the draft. Remember him? I'll give you a hint:He wasn't anywhere 6-3.

OhExaulted1 said:

Gaffney, who I really liked, accumulated 85 catches for 1060 yards, over 3 seasons. Why no love or interest in the 5-10-11 guy with ST skills?

To each his own I guess. We took 1 WR last year in the draft. Remember him? I'll give you a hint:He wasn't anywhere 6-3.

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He also didn't make the team. I hated the pick at the time, and still do.

OhExaulted1 said:

Gaffney, who I really liked, accumulated 85 catches for 1060 yards, over 3 seasons. Why no love or interest in the 5-10-11 guy with ST skills?

To each his own I guess. We took 1 WR last year in the draft. Remember him? I'll give you a hint:He wasn't anywhere 6-3.

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If you are so sure that Smelter is an UDFA and has no chance of being drafted, why need it concern you that Mayo and I like him. And, as you are convinced he's an UDFA, I presume that means you have watched his games and aren't simply basing your views based upon a CBS ranking in December.

manxman2601 said:

If you are so sure that Smelter is an UDFA and has no chance of being drafted, why need it concern you that Mayo and I like him. And, as you are convinced he's an UDFA, I presume that means you have watched his games and aren't simply basing your views based upon a CBS ranking in December.

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The thing is, there's tons of discussion and tons of mocks that would have the Pats use a day 1-2 pick on a split end like Devin Funchess or Dorial Green-Beckham. I've never yet heard a hint of the "BB will never use multiple big WRs" discussion. 6'3" Kevin White, 6'3" DeVante Parker, and 6'2" Ty Montgomery have all been discussed without great ado. I don't understand why suggesting 6'3" 222# DeAndre Smelter late on day 3 should be controversial. Personally, I'll take Smelter over any WR in this draft.

Why is everyone so high on smelter? I haven't started watching any tape on him yet. I know he goes to Georgia tech which produced megatron, DT, and Stephen hill but thats about it.

Gabriel_p94 said:

Why is everyone so high on smelter? I haven't started watching any tape on him yet. I know he goes to Georgia tech which produced megatron, DT, and Stephen hill but thats about it.

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Because we've watched him.

mayoclinic said:

The thing is, there's tons of discussion and tons of mocks that would have the Pats use a day 1-2 pick on a split end like Devin Funchess or Dorial Green-Beckham. I've never yet heard a hint of the "BB will never use multiple big WRs" discussion. 6'3" Kevin White, 6'3" DeVante Parker, and 6'2" Ty Montgomery have all been discussed without great ado. I don't understand why suggesting 6'3" 222# DeAndre Smelter late on day 3 should be controversial. Personally, I'll take Smelter over any WR in this draft.

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You'd take Smelter over Amari Cooper? OK.

Day 3 is not controversial and quite reasonable. I just don't see him becoming a Patriot.

OhExaulted1 said:

You'd take Smelter over Amari Cooper? OK.

Day 3 is not controversial and quite reasonable. I just don't see him becoming a Patriot.

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I think Cooper is highly overrated, like many other products of the Alabama hype machine. [I did NOT think that of Julio Jones, who I considered the "perfect" WR prospect, though I would never go WR in the top 10 picks.] I remember when Trent Richardson was being hyped as the greatest RB since Jim Brown, and I said that Doug Martin would be a better pro.

I don't know if Smelter will have a better career than Cooper, but it wouldn't shock me if he does. I think he's got 1st round talent, and he'll likely go late day 3. I'll take that value over trading up in the 1st round for a WR any day.

I'm thinking if Becham can drop to the third or fourth then I say we pull the trigger on him. Then I say we grab smelter late if possible. I think we're gonna need to bring in two receivers cause idk if its effort or just Dobson just isn't catching on(granted he has been injured most of the season).

mayoclinic said:

I haven't seen a whole lot more than the highlight film of McBride, and he hasn't played against that much good competition. I agree he's intriguing as a day 3 guy, but I wouldn't consider him to be anything close to Smelter as a potential prospect. I think Smelter is a legitimate 1st round talent who could be available on day 3; I think he's a better receiver than Dorial Green-Beckham. Other than being the flavor du jour, what specifically do you see that would make McBride close to that kind of a talent?

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This might get you to rethink a touch:

Tre McBride I like, reminds me of Cody Latimer in many ways. Smelter a guy I really like, so good after the catch

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Thats a tweet to me from Ryan Booher who's an amateur draft twitter guy but has become one of my favourite follows just recently. He was the guy who also likened DJ Foster to Shane Vereen.

https://twitter.com/bootang25/status/549374097827057664

So that's a Sammy Watkins comp and a Cody Latimer comp for McBride. Nice.

manxman2601 said:

This might get you to rethink a touch:

Thats a tweet to me from Ryan Booher who's an amateur draft twitter guy but has become one of my favourite follows just recently. He was the guy who also likened DJ Foster to Shane Vereen.

https://twitter.com/bootang25/status/549374097827057664

So that's a Sammy Watkins comp and a Cody Latimer comp for McBride. Nice.

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McBride seems closer to Watkins than Latimer in terms of build. I haven't seen enough film to form an opinion that strong, but he is definitely intriguing and I'm interested to see more. You may have noticed that I've doubled him up with Smelter in the 6th and 7th rounds of my more recent mocks.

It is amazing to me that using 6th and 7th round picks on Smelter/McBride can even create so much controversy. In essence those picks are priority UDFA signings that certainly won't break the draft. If said players end up on the roster post camp they were already a success.

luuked said:

It is amazing to me that using 6th and 7th round picks on Smelter/McBride can even create so much controversy. In essence those picks are priority UDFA signings that certainly won't break the draft. If said players end up on the roster post camp they were already a success.

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It's not so much taking big WR's late. I'm not opposed to them taking a flyer on one or UDFA's for camp competition. I'm sure we will, but we've got 2 WR's who had over 900 yds rec. and are signed. One's the feature outside guy, others a solt guy. We also have the best TE in football and another TE who is basically a hybrid. Both are also signed for next season. Dobson and Hoo-man are also signed. Tyms will more than likely be tendered. Slater is our gunner who just got extended.

Now, by all accounts, Amendola won't be here next year. L. Blount, although signed, I don't really see fielding kickoffs anymore. Our 100 catch a year slot guy is also our PR. He'll be 29, has had injury and concussion history. Don't get me wrong, he's the best PR we've had since Troy, but he's getting some miles on him. Danny fielded half our kickoffs and a third or so of our punt returns.

To give you an idea of where I'm coming from I'll break down some numbers:The big 4 of our recieving core had 274 catches this year. Danny added 27. Vereen, who I really hope we retain, had 55 out of the backfield. The remaing backs and Hoo-man had 27.

That leaves 14 catches by the other 3 WR's, or 3.6%. What I'm seeing is a big hole in the form of a backup slot/return guy. Catches out of the backfield are also a critical part of how this offense is constructed. If Vereen leaves for greener pastures, that would put alot on 2nd year guy White. Another potential big hole.

Since this thread is on WR's I'm more focused on the slot/return spot since that's where I think the need will be. I know many here subscribe to theory that BB only takes the BPA. I don't belive that's true at all. I think it's also a combination of need as well. Maturity and other factors are of course accounted for also.

The cream of the crop I see in that regard right now is Tyler Lockett (and yes, I have watched some film on him). Great production and solid bloodlines as well. JJ Nelson, although skinny as a rail, has lit it up too, albeit aginst lesser competition. Kaelin Clay, apart from the gaffe against Oregon, is a UDFA type I could see.

Lockett strikes me as an Emmanuel Sanders type and if we don't snap him up in the 2nd he won't be there at the end of the 3rd IMO. I've got him penciled in at #64 in my mock right now.

Again, to each his own. Personally, I'd barf if we spent a 2nd round pick on a slot receiver/KR.

mayoclinic said:

Again, to each his own. Personally, I'd barf if we spent a 2nd round pick on a slot receiver/KR.

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Fair enough. I've seen alot of mocks with Coates, Funchess, Montgomery, Strong et al. I don't think we should waste any of our first 5 picks on a WR who's no help on ST's. Seems to me like it would be a redundant waste of a pick.

OhExaulted1 said:

Fair enough. I've seen alot of mocks with Coates, Funchess, Montgomery, Strong et al. I don't think we should waste any of our first 5 picks on a WR who's no help on ST's. Seems to me like it would be a redundant waste of a pick.

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I agree that we shouldn't waste one of our top 5 picks on a WR.

I wish I had some insight into how the Pats currently view Dobson. Hard to know if he was simply dinged up all year or if it was attitude or if they're ready to move on.