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Idle thoughts - the broken record edition


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There is nothing extra special about Cooper. He has no elite size, nor elite speed, nor extraordinary hands. He is not 6-4; He does not run 4.28; He does not possess Moss' other attribute of rare body control.

He is merely a good receiver, just like a half a dozen that the colleges produce every year.

Neither was Givens, or Deion Branch. I'd rather have a solid, dependable WR like Cooper than another potential diva like Moss or even Jerry Rice.
 
I get your point.
I understand the gist of this, it's really only #4 that I contest (or, at least, I'm asking for more justification). As I wrote above, #3 is the best argument in favor I've seen.
I get your point, but we probably should move on to other issues before we get all Rob/AJ on this one. ;) Tell me Oz, what do you thing about Jeff Fisher?
 
"I'm hoping against hope that the debacle also known as the NFCS might make the owners think twice about expanding the playoffs next season. Its going to be a travesty when an 11 or 12 win team is forced to play an away game with a 7 win team.

One of the big reasons why the NFL is so compelling, is that EVERY game matters so much,and how limited playoff spots are. Adding 2 more wildcard teams waters down the product and makes it more likely we will see "bad" teams playing in the league's finest showcase. Unfortunately the NFL has shown an uncanny ability to do the wrong thing over the last few years, so I'm not expecting on good outcome on this issue either."

Win your Division, win your Conference, win the Championship. A simple playoff formula that works year in and year out. Yes, we've seen some anomalies, but to change the very nature of the playoffs is an overreaction. A division winner deserves the home game regardless of what other teams have done.
 
Give Goodhell time and he;ll find a way to screw with this too.

and BTW, once again the Super Bowl in Arizona? What team would be extremely comfortable playing there as you look back a few years when the site was named...hmmmmm...Denver, Seattle, San Fran, Cardinals, Dallas....why not the Miami or Atlanta or N.O.? To the Pats, Pittsburgh, the Ravens, Falcons, Philly or the Giants this is like an AWAY game. Of course, nobody in the NFL offices is trend setting these games to match a specific geographical area on purpose, right...nah...they'd NEVER do something like that...:cool:
 
Since its going to be 20 days before we play a meaningful game, here are some observations, pet peeves, rants, and questions before we play this year's version of pre-season game #3 in week 17.

1. Every week I see posters calling for us to add that "deep threat" to our receiving corps, as if suddenly the clouds would disappear, cancer will be cured, and some Iman somewhere would declare to all Muslims that the 21st century doesn't suck, if ONLY we could find our own version of Julio Jones. :eek:

I have long opined that year after year of unbroken history that proven CONCLUSIVELY that having an elite WR is NOT the answer to winning football. And while it certainly is a very nice luxury, it definitely ISN'T a requirement. Unfortunately judging from the amount of WR threads, and demands and pleas from so many to add this so call "critical necessity", I'm clearly not making much headway in my efforts. ;).

So let me come at it another way. Let me ask those people a question. Why do we need this "missing piece" when there hasn't been a single game all season where, with the talent at hand, we HAVEN'T had a WR open deep on multiple occasions.

Does it really make sense to invest major cap space, or valuable high end draft capital to add an asset with a skill set our QB can't match? Let's face it, the guy who is probably the greatest QB of all time, and one of the more accurate QB's in NFL history, DOESN'T throw an accurate deep ball.

At least once every game we are teased by a Brady long ball that will fall JUST out of reach of an open WR deep down the field. I don't know what the reason is. Its not arm strength. He's got more than enough. Its NOT that we don't have receivers who can get open. That's just not true. We see one open at least a couple of times a game.

So if I can't make a historical case by pointing out that WR's have less impact on winning than you think, maybe I can make the case that having that "deep threat" WR might be a wasted asset, since our QB might have a problem taking advantage of one.

The argument is to improve upon the receiving depth for options 3, 4, and 5 via reasonable value choices---NOT to go out and spend 12 million dollars per year on a deep threat wideout.

Whether that's done through the draft again (in an attempt), or via lower or middle tiered free agency is up to the man who makes the decisions, but most here agree that it should be addressed next year.
 
A couple of points

1. It might be anecdotal, but it seems to me that although Brady continues his problematic success on deep balls, he IS pushing the ball deeper down field this year more. And this is by design. I first noticed it in TC, and it has continued throughout the year. Am I the only one who see a lot less of the so called "Welker routes" this season. Just a thought.

2. I agree with those who believe part of Brady's problem with the deep ball is his fear of picks. I think that's why most of his deep misses tend to be over throws. The needing a WR who better adjusts to the ball theorists have a point as well. All the more reason to keep this WR group intact and have them develop these skills within the same system and with the same QB

3. Another question I feel the need to ask is, "to what end?:" How many more points or wins is this so called elite WR going to add. We already have the highest scoring offense in the league and this with a very young receiver group with a lot of upside. If we can leave well enough alone, it will only get better.

Sure, everything is fine until one of Edelman or LaFell gets injured, which is where the subject of depth concern comes in.

We can all agree that Amendola is providing neither production or value as the WR3. He's failing terribly at both, even though I'd love to keep him on a cheap deal maybe one more year for depth/special teams purposes.

Everyone else is basically in the developmental stage (Dobson, Boyce, Tyms), or isn't really an actual wide receiver but simply plays on special teams (Slater).

That's now FIVE wide receivers behind Edelman/LaFell who really don't do a damn thing. Sure, we need to have a developmental guy or two (along with ST), but the object would be to reduce the number from five to maybe two or three--at most.
 
I wish we stuck with Kenbrell Thompkins. Hope They give Tyms plenty more chances. Would love to see them hit a deep strike in the playoffs or Super Bowl, maybe on the opening play of a game..
He hasn't exactly set the world on fire in Oakland. And Carr is not an awful QB for a rookie.
 
Give Goodhell time and he;ll find a way to screw with this too.

and BTW, once again the Super Bowl in Arizona? What team would be extremely comfortable playing there as you look back a few years when the site was named...hmmmmm...Denver, Seattle, San Fran, Cardinals, Dallas....why not the Miami or Atlanta or N.O.? To the Pats, Pittsburgh, the Ravens, Falcons, Philly or the Giants this is like an AWAY game. Of course, nobody in the NFL offices is trend setting these games to match a specific geographical area on purpose, right...nah...they'd NEVER do something like that...:cool:
This one eludes me. What are you suggesting? I don't think Seattle or San Francisco would think this felt like a home game. They may be slightly closer, but the climate AND the general make up of the population couldn't be more different. Dallas maybe. But really, why the hell would the NFL care really? If they wanted to get Peyton another ring, just hold the game in Denver, problem solved.
 
This one eludes me. What are you suggesting? I don't think Seattle or San Francisco would think this felt like a home game. They may be slightly closer, but the climate AND the general make up of the population couldn't be more different. Dallas maybe. But really, why the hell would the NFL care really? If they wanted to get Peyton another ring, just hold the game in Denver, problem solved.

I read Machiavelli into everything this league does, rochrist...it's a minor compulsion. I can control it...if I really want to....o_O
 
I agree that the patriots should not and will not sign a high profile free agent WR. They also will not trade a couple of firsts and a seconds to potentially move up high enough to get Cooper.
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I do think that ken overvalues our WR position. We have Edelman and LeFell as our starters. On 2015, we will have Dobson, Tyms and Boyce as our backups. This is not a great set of receivers. Perhaps, Belichick will find another LaFell or be able to re-sign Amendola.

I'm OK with Edelman and LaFell, but we shouldn't make believe that we don't have a need. MAYBE Dobson, Tyms and Boyce could produce two solid backups, perhaps not. In any case, we need Amendola or a replacement for camp (in addition to these three).
 
Neither was Givens, or Deion Branch. I'd rather have a solid, dependable WR like Cooper than another potential diva like Moss or even Jerry Rice.
You do understand that Cooper is currently projected to be a top 10 pick. Two firsts and a second would probably NOT be enough to get Cooper.
 
There is nothing extra special about Cooper. He has no elite size, nor elite speed, nor extraordinary hands. He is not 6-4; He does not run 4.28; He does not possess Moss' other attribute of rare body control.

He is merely a good receiver, just like a half a dozen that the colleges produce every year.

Amari Cooper is by far the top WR prospect in the draft, and will certainly go within the top 5-6 picks. I haven't found many (if any) draft prediction sites or "experts" who don't feel that way.

I don't know if you watch much college football, but he produces at an extremely high level.

That said, there's no way that N.England could afford to trade up to get him, so it's a moot point.
 
I absolutely agree that there's not much of a chance for New England to pick up Amari Cooper, and although he'd be nice to have, I also agree with PFK that what the Patriots need to do is keep on developing the WR's already in the stable.

My whole original comment was that he'd be a nice fit here because of the system he plays in under Nick Saban, where the language and schemes are extremely similar to New England's, so the learning curve of the playbook wouldn't be as big a shock as it otherwise might be.

But it's all just tossing out ideas at this point. Personally, I'm waiting for DIKEMBE to chime in and offer his advice. It's usually pretty insightful. :rolleyes:
 
I wish we stuck with Kenbrell Thompkins. Hope They give Tyms plenty more chances. Would love to see them hit a deep strike in the playoffs or Super Bowl, maybe on the opening play of a game..

He had 14 catches for Oakland this year.
 
I thought that the original Randy wanted to rejoin the Pats.

Understanding that my comment is somewhat tongue in cheek--There are times where Belichick can make or break your entire career ;)
 
Win your Division, win your Conference, win the Championship. A simple playoff formula that works year in and year out. Yes, we've seen some anomalies, but to change the very nature of the playoffs is an overreaction. A division winner deserves the home game regardless of what other teams have done.
The tweak isn't that massive, and would have an overall beneficial impact: add a qualification that you have to win your division with a record of greater than 0.500. If your division is so bad that it can't produce a single winning team, it doesn't deserve a home game. (The other reason for arguing this is remembering that divisions are rather arbitrary: remember that Indianapolis has shared its AFC South with three expansion teams.)
 
One more point to add to patfanken's excellent comments: one other skill set where Belichick completely trounces pretty much everyone else in the NFL is evaluating talent on other rosters and figuring out who would make a productive addition to his roster—even though they don't seem to be doing much where they currently are. Figuring out you could use a Megatron on your roster is easy; realizing that a Mike Vrabel or a Danny Woodhead or an Akeem Ayers can work well within your system and help you win games is exponentially harder.
 
I have bashed Brady's deep ball for awhile as well but I honestly think he will address it. I doubt Brady has even practiced throwing the deep ball as much as other quarterbacks when our offense was centered around Welker for years. This season he has had some of the best scrambles I have ever seen from him and next season will be something else for him to get better at.
 
Rex has been a complete failure when it comes to the offense. And even when he had talent to work with on offense it underachieved for the most part. Special teams has also been spotty for him. And poor safety play has really held back his defenses for years. He never found his Ed Reed.
 
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