Vollmer's Future

mgteich said:

Of course, you don't have any idea why this is being discussed. You have shown, over, and over, and over again that you don't understand contract and cap management In this case, you seem to think that what we should pay Vollmer going forward should be based on your analysis that Vollmer's 2013 and 2104 compensation was below market.

The team has a decision to make with regard very single play. For almost all the decisions are easy one.

The team need to decided whether Vollmer is worth $6M for his 2015 services. They will have that decision again in the next of-season.

The team needs to decide how much Solder is worth.

The team needs to decide how much Connolly is worth.

The team has already decided how much Cannon is worth, with most on this board strongly disagreeing with the evaluation of the team that Cannon is worth more than $4M per year.

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You are so funny. Really hilarious, if you want to go over who knows what we can, but you'll get embarrassed. Go open a thread about a thread and stop trying to talk down to me.

Cannon is irrelevant to Vollmer. He was signed because he was a starting caliber OL that we could sign for a reasonable price. You always want to make more out of things than they are. Like we signed a practice squad LB and now let's exam a Jerod Mayo's contract.. It's unmerited and baseless.

mgteich said:

YOU say that Cannon's compensation is $7.4M INCLUDING INCENTIVES, at most. You simply want to exclude the signing bonus.

Let's consider the contract without even a workout bonus.

$3.2M bonus (in three payments as pointed out by aj)
$1.2M 2015 salary
$3.4M 2016 salary
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$7.8M
The total is not $7.5M after incentives; it is $7.8M before them.

IN ADDITION, there are easy to reach workout bonuses, weight bonus and game bonuses. The only questionable incentive is the game time incentive of $250K which is a bit more then the $200K of workout bonuses not included in the totals.

You can estimate what you think Cannon will receive. It will north of $8M and probably close to $8.5M if he plays both years. It will be closer to $4.8M if only play in 2015.

http://overthecap.com/player/marcus-cannon/1228

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I think you are not correct

Brady6 said:

You are so funny. Really hilarious, if you want to go over who knows what we can, but you'll get embarrassed. Go open a thread about a thread and stop trying to talk down to me.

Cannon is irrelevant to Vollmer. He was signed because he was a starting caliber OL that we could sign for a reasonable price. You always want to make more out of things than they are. Like we signed a practice squad LB and now let's exam a Jerod Mayo's contract.. It's unmerited and baseless.

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I don't have you on "ignore" because I enjoy a good laugh.

Let me understand, the fact that we re-signed Cannon, a starting quality RT to a reasonable price of over $4M a year, has nothing to do with a discussion whether Vollmer should be paid $6M.

In fact, according to you, Cannon's salary is so low that his signing is comparable to signing a practice squad linebacker.
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We may indeed keep all the following at their contracted salaries: Wilfork, Mayo, Vollmer and Solder.
For you of such huge knowledge, it makes no sense to consider whether they are worth what they are being paid. That's fine. You entitled to that view.

For almost ALL of the rest of us, certainly including Miguel who has written dozens of blogs on the choices facing the team with regard these players, to most of the rest of us, there are decisions to be made.

FOR THE RECORD, I have shown how and why we should keep all of our defensive players. And I have never, ever, said that I expect Vollmer to be gone. HOWEVER, I think that paying Cannon over $4M a year should at least get us to discussing which OT's will be back.

And yes, there were posters who posted at this time last year how absolutely crazy it was to consider that Mankins had a very high salary and cap hit, and that because of this his future was in doubt. The posts looked very much like the posts that you have posted on this thread.
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I don't mind being attacked by your silly arguments. The reality is that Solder is being paid a large salary, cap hit, and has the same agent as Welker. The fact is that Vollmer has a very large salary and cap hit. And the fact is that Belichick just decided to pay a lot to Cannon. Personally, I'd love to see us extend Solder, Vollmer and draft a mid-round OT. I think that we should draft an OT in any case. Maybe both Solder and Vollmer will be back. If not, we'll need to sign a free agent to replace them on the roster.

BOTTOM LINE
Over $10 million dollars a year is a lot to pay for the RT position.

mgteich said:

I don't have you on "ignore" because I enjoy a good laugh.

Let me understand, the fact that we re-signed Cannon, a starting quality RT to a reasonable price of over $4M a year, has nothing to do with a discussion whether Vollmer should be paid $6M.

In fact, according to you, Cannon's salary is so low that his signing is comparable to signing a practice squad linebacker.
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We may indeed keep all the following at their contracted salaries: Wilfork, Mayo, Vollmer and Solder.
For you of such huge knowledge, it makes no sense to consider whether they are worth what they are being paid. That's fine. You entitled to that view.

For almost ALL of the rest of us, certainly including Miguel who has written dozens of blogs on the choices facing the team with regard these players, to most of the rest of us, there are decisions to be made.

FOR THE RECORD, I have shown how and why we should keep all of our defensive players. And I have never, ever, said that I expect Vollmer to be gone. HOWEVER, I think that paying Cannon over $4M a year should at least get us to discussing which OT's will be back.

And yes, there were posters who posted at this time last year how absolutely crazy it was to consider that Mankins had a very high salary and cap hit, and that because of this his future was in doubt. The posts looked very much like the posts that you have posted on this thread.
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I don't mind being attacked by your silly arguments. The reality is that Solder is being paid a large salary, cap hit, and has the same agent as Welker. The fact is that Vollmer has a very large salary and cap hit. And the fact is that Belichick just decided to pay a lot to Cannon. Personally, I'd love to see us extend Solder, Vollmer and draft a mid-round OT. I think that we should draft an OT in any case. Maybe both Solder and Vollmer will be back. If not, we'll need to sign a free agent to replace them on the roster.

BOTTOM LINE
Over $10 million dollars a year is a lot to pay for the RT position.

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Last I checked Cannon played LT and RT. I'm not surprised by your outlook however, you always have a simplistic one. You could probably open a "Is Cannon a LT or RT" thread that seems as if it would be right up your alley. Couple things you may not be aware of - Solder is only under contract for next season. Cannon was a LT and a good one in college. Cannon was viewed as a potential LG this season, he could still feel that way and be planning to make the change in the offseason when Cannon can learn the position. Vollmer could be viewed as someone they could move to LG next season. The Broncos top need this offseason is a RT. There are many reasons why Cannon could have been resigned. A simple man assumes it is to replace Vollmer. A smart man understands that teams tend to keep players they feel can produce even if they don't have a starting job for them necessarily.


Sorry you did not understand the sarcasm with the practice squad comment. I will dumb it down next time.

AndyJohnson said:

I think you are not correct

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please elaborate

He's the best RT in the league and in this day and age they're worth $$, which someone WILL pay.

He's not a keep at all costs type, but he's by some distance our best lineman. Let him go and we're asking for trouble.

You guys are being silly. If there was a longer injury to Solder, Vollmer would be your starting LT. Cannon would be your RT. Or, let's say we let Solder walk and draft a tackle in the first that would be your scenario. Vollmer at LT with Cannon battling the top pick at RT. Cannon is being paid to be a back-up tackle. Doesn't matter which side. He's your 3rd tackle. Sounds like some think Fleming might move to RG next year. Maybe, that's why Cannon was re-upped.

Brady6 said:

Last I checked Cannon played LT and RT. I'm not surprised by your outlook however, you always have a simplistic one. You could probably open a "Is Cannon a LT or RT" thread that seems as if it would be right up your alley. Couple things you may not be aware of - Solder is only under contract for next season. Cannon was a LT and a good one in college. Cannon was viewed as a potential LG this season, he could still feel that way and be planning to make the change in the offseason when Cannon can learn the position. Vollmer could be viewed as someone they could move to LG next season. The Broncos top need this offseason is a RT. There are many reasons why Cannon could have been resigned. A simple man assumes it is to replace Vollmer. A smart man understands that teams tend to keep players they feel can produce even if they don't have a starting job for them necessarily.


Sorry you did not understand the sarcasm with the practice squad comment. I will dumb it down next time.

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You seem bright enough to understand that Fleming is likely to be an NFL RG and not an OT. After four years of Cannon playing OT reasonably well (well enough to be a starter), and never playing well at OG, you still think that he's a guard. Your understanding (stated many times) is that if Cannon is starter quality at OT, then he MUST be starter quality at RG. Cannon got almost no reps at OG in camp or the pre-season. With the injuries and Mankins gone, there was a bit of an emergency early in the year.

Yes, we have do have a need at LG (LT also). Extending Cannon for two years does indeed allow Vollmer to move over to the left side if there is no other option. I don't see Vollmer playing LG. I'd much rather have Connolly or Wendell until our top draftee can win the job.

mgteich said:

You seem bright enough to understand that Fleming is likely to be an NFL RG and not an OT. After four years of Cannon playing OT reasonably well (well enough to be a starter), and never playing well at OG, you still think that he's a guard. Your understanding (stated many times) is that if Cannon is starter quality at OT, then he MUST be starter quality at RG. Cannon got almost no reps at OG in camp or the pre-season. With the injuries and Mankins gone, there was a bit of an emergency early in the year.

Yes, we have do have a need at LG (LT also). Extending Cannon for two years does indeed allow Vollmer to move over to the left side if there is no other option. I don't see Vollmer playing LG. I'd much rather have Connolly or Wendell until our top draftee can win the job.

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Merry Christmas MG [emoji318][emoji319][emoji320]

BritPat said:

He's the best RT in the league and in this day and age they're worth $$, which someone WILL pay.

He's not a keep at all costs type, but he's by some distance our best lineman. Let him go and we're asking for trouble.

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If Belichick considers Vollmer our best lineman, he will certainly stay at $6M a year. The bigger question is Solder.

Brady6 said:

Merry Christmas MG [emoji318][emoji319][emoji320]

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And to you Brady6!

mgteich said:

And to you Brady6!

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First I apologize for the abrasive response. Sometimes I take your responses personally and I shouldn't.

Second, you could be right about Vollmer he may be a cap casualty, I just cannot see us further weakening our line by moving on from Vollmer. Essentially we would have moved on from Mankins and Vollmer who were arguably the #1 and #2 OL. I just am hopeful there is something more to the Cannon signing.

Brady6 said:

First I apologize for the abrasive response. Sometimes I take your responses personally and I shouldn't.

Second, you could be right about Vollmer he may be a cap casualty, I just cannot see us further weakening our line by moving on from Vollmer. Essentially we would have moved on from Mankins and Vollmer who were arguably the #1 and #2 OL. I just am hopeful there is something more to the Cannon signing.

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Merry Christmas B6. We have an understanding now?

I share the concerns about further weakening the line by moving on. I figure it will be Solder rather than Vollmer, but it's hard to read.

However, there are big cap concerns next season. It will be a struggle to retain Revis, McCourty, Gostkowski, Connolly, Ridley, Vereen, plus Mayo, Wilfork, Solder, and Vollmer. There seems to be a lot of risk to the franchise QB of replacing one of the starting tackles, but that could well be one place the team sees some acceptable depth -- and maybe as importantly a lack of fit -- and may be willing to move on.

When considering Mayo and Wilfork, they seem like such team guys. The owner doesn't go onto the field to kiss Solder. McCourty seems just one step down from that elite beloved group. Revis sure seems to fit, as well as delivering elite talent. It just may be that there is less of a bond, less of a demonstrated "Patriots Way" with the two tackles.

Brady6 said:

Yeah I am good. I have been a **** in the past, I own it, and am trying not to be that way on here anymore. I apologize for the history and hope to have a good forum experience moving forward. Best to you and yours this holiday season!

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This is Christmas cool, two posters who make a real contribution embodying the spirit of the season.

TomPatriot said:

This is Christmas cool, two posters who make a real contribution embodying the spirit of the season.

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This a good site, a lot of great posters who are dedicated to the team. I'm just trying to do a better job living up to the site. Best wishes to you and yours in the new year.

Brady6 said:

Yeah I am good. I have been a **** in the past, I own it, and am trying not to be that way on here anymore. I apologize for the history and hope to have a good forum experience moving forward. Best to you and yours this holiday season!

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Well, Auld Lang's Syne, I apologize for being an a**hole, even the times when it was really funny.

I think we would be nuts to let a guy like Vollmer go given what this team is trying to accomplish in a short (2-3 seasons) period of time.

I don't expect them to get rid of Vollmer or Solder, but in the event someone goes, it will almost certainly be the latter. While Solder has been uneven this year, I think it makes more sense to try and find the Bryan Stork of LGs than it does to play musical chairs with the OTs.