I Ask You.....Is P. Manning Done?

BingoBrown said:

LOL, but with Favre one was really not sure if was retiring or not.

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In 2009, Favre arguably had his best season as a pro. In 2010, he was awful.

I remember BB commenting on this topic once during a presser. When asked about Bruschi's retirement and when from a personnel standpoint when he knew Bru was done and how he projects when veterans can no longer be competitive. he said something to the effect that it's not something thats easy to predict and it's on a case by case basis. Every player is different. He said some players have a slow, gradual decline and others it almost happens overnight.

As Deus points out, his numbers thru Weeks 1-8 are drastically different than those from 9-16. Based on that it seems to me he is hurt but we won't really know until the middle of next year if it's and injury that is the reason for his un-Peyton-like play of late or is he really just lost it overnight and his body just isn't responding to treatment or not recovering as quickly as it used to.

I remember seeing Bruschi pre-season. Went to cover a guy on a pass pattern who took it deep. When the separation was over 5 yds and rapidly increasing, I knew my guy was done. DONE.
Retired days thereafter. I think BB saw that play (and of course others) and knew.

Surprised that people are blaming it on his arm. 2 of those nits were horrific decisions, especially the botched screen Kirkpatrick INT. Had nothing to do with his arm. Had everything to do with Peyton panicking and choking.

Pats-Phan said:

Something seems wrong with Peyton. I don't think he is 100% healthy and I suspect the Broncos are concealing an injury.

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Agreed. It is certainly showing in his passes as the game goes on. Something is not right there. I remember not all that long ago when Manning let go of a ball that it was a rope whenever he wanted it. Now even when he needs it the velocity and accuracy are not there.

He is smart enough to get the job done in spite of that for the most part, but if Brady had D. Thomas, Sanders and Welker back to go with Gronk or even Julius Thomas there wouldn't be a defense good enough to stop them nor an offense good enough to keep up.

I agree. Manning made some bad decisions. Very uncharacteristic of him.

My guess is he has surgery to fix whatever is wrong with his neck/shoulder and is back next season.

I think his problems are more age related than injury related. His decline seems to be typical of an older QB who has arm strength issues. He comes out into season like gangbusters and trails off late in the season. If it is an injury, it is an injury they have been hiding for months because he has been off since the Pats game. The media is just finally admitting what people could see for months. He just ain't right.

Maker's Muppet said:

Surprised that people are blaming it on his arm. 2 of those nits were horrific decisions, especially the botched screen Kirkpatrick INT. Had nothing to do with his arm. Had everything to do with Peyton panicking and choking.

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Has he been panicking and choking for like six weeks. Yesterday was just what he has been doing for a while now just not at such a magnified scale. He can be elite at short bursts, but he is horrible a lot more.

supafly said:

I think some of you are going way too far with this.

Yes, Manning has definitely lost arm strength. As a matter of fact, he has lacked arm strength since his surgery, before he even came to Denver.

That said, he's still the 3rd rated QB (behind Rodgers and Brady) in the league due to his experience, intelligence, ability to pre-read defenses, and ability to take advantage of mismatches. In other words, all of those excellent qualities help to mask his deficiencies.

John Elway would likely laugh in your face if you asked him about "cutting" Peyton freaking Manning. He had a chance at the #1 seed up until 18 hrs ago. C'mon...

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Over the last month, they were winning despite Manning not because of him. In fact, there are several games that if they had to rely on him to carry the team, they would have lost big time.

And Elway does have to do some soul searching about Manning and what type of team he wants to run. The way they have been winning since the Rams' game, they do not need a QB with a$20 million cap hit. They have a lot of free agents this offseason including the two Thomases, Welker (done but with no viable replacement since the guy they drafted to ultimately to replace him has done nothing this season), Pot Roast, Nate Irving, Will Montgomery, and several others. Plus Von Miller is a free agent the following year and they probably want to lock him up. If they plan to be a more balanced team that wins on defense, they are better off trying to keep their free agents rather than Manning.

Odds are he will keep Manning, but don't be shocked it the Broncos part ways. I think if Osweiler showed anything in his limited playing time, the chances would be much better that they let Manning go. But with no guaranteed successor, I think Elway will hesitant to let Manning go even if he feels it might be the right thing to do.

But the last seven weeks, Manning has not been the third best QB in the league. He has been middle of the pack.

It's a matter of character...QB's with strong character and will to win show up on the big stage...

Weak character spoiled, pampered, egocentric college sexual assault artists and blame throwers show their feet of clay in the biggest moments.

For those of you who don't mind NSFW threads and want to read some insanity (and some good, old-fashioned smack downs), here you go:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289390

Deus Irae said:

For those of you who don't mind NSFW threads and want to read some insanity (and some good, old-fashioned smack downs), here you go:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289390

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That idiot Hootie is using ESPN's QBR system, which is universally scoffed at and mocked to the official NFL RTG rating. The blind, sub-mongoloidal hatred for NE and Brady is a common thought process across the U.S.

Joker said:

That idiot Hootie is using ESPN's QBR system, which is universally scoffed at and mocked to the official NFL RTG rating. The blind, sub-mongoloidal hatred for NE and Brady is a common thought process across the U.S.

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I thought you'd get a kick out of it.

1960Pats said:

the guy who played the Pats in the 2004 playoffs and completed more passes to Ty Law than any of his teammates.

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I don't recall it that way. I thought he completed 3 each to Ty Law and Marvin Harrison ... and then Rodney hit Marvin on 1 of the completions for a lost fumble. So if my memory is accurate, it would up being 2 useful completions and 4 takeaways.

That was the game where Law and Rodney switched positions, and where Vrabel also lined up consistently at NT (but he'd hit the center once -- Jeff Saturday? -- then drop into coverage).

Deus Irae said:

It's a bad foot plant

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That's what I was thinking. Pivoting on his back heel can't be what he intended.

Rob0729 said:

I think his problems are more age related than injury related. His decline seems to be typical of an older QB who has arm strength issues. He comes out into season like gangbusters and trails off late in the season. If it is an injury, it is an injury they have been hiding for months because he has been off since the Pats game. The media is just finally admitting what people could see for months. He just ain't right.

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While I agree that he's been "off" and has thrown too many INTs in the second half of the year, if he doesn't throw that pick-6 to Dre Kirkpatrick to seal the game for Cincy, the headlines would be "Manning comes back from 20-7 halftime deficit and puts up 35 points..."

Again...I don't disagree with what you're saying in re: to him tailing off in the second half with 2 losses since the Pats game, but I think it's being blown up a bit too much. That said, I'm definitely enjoying it just as well, since we often have his stats jammed down our throats via every media outlet available.

No doubt that his arm strength has been going for awhile though. That may really be starting to take a bigger toll these days.

TommyBrady12 said:

He's not going to get better next year. If elway feels like manning does not have the ability to win another title, why would they not move on?

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Because he will probably lead them to a 12-4 record in just about every season he plays?

Who do you foresee as suddenly stepping in and giving them a better chance to win than Peyton Manning?

I'm far from a great football mind, but if I will have 40+ million in cap space next year, I'm likely keeping the first-ballot HOF quarterback, even if he's thrown more INTs than everyone's used to in the second half of the season, while losing his 2nd game (in the final couple of minutes on a potentially game winning drive) since the Patriots matchup.

I don't think they have a good enough Plan B just yet, unless you are projecting some kind of trade for Rodgers, Luck, Brees, Rivers, etc--and I think the odds of that happening are rather low.

I think Peyton play has to do with a combination of a noodle arm and an injury the Donkeys are trying to hide. Combine that with the fact, JT and Welker aren't on the same level they were last year, and their big FA pickups on the other side of the ball like Ware and Talib, like Manning are fading as the season goes. Not to mention they have maybe the worst LB group in the league.

It was a team that looked great on paper to start the season, but as the season went you can see its flaws. Its not a great team, and there only hope is to get on that deer antler spray the Ravens were on back in 2012 to win anything. If not, this team is going one and done. Just think if the Donkeys lose Sunday and Cincy wins, Donkeys play next week, while Cincy gets the bye...

supafly said:

I think some of you are going way too far with this.

Yes, Manning has definitely lost arm strength. As a matter of fact, he has lacked arm strength since his surgery, before he even came to Denver.

That said, he's still the 3rd rated QB (behind Rodgers and Brady) in the league due to his experience, intelligence, ability to pre-read defenses, and ability to take advantage of mismatches. In other words, all of those excellent qualities help to mask his deficiencies.

John Elway would likely laugh in your face if you asked him about "cutting" Peyton freaking Manning. He had a chance at the #1 seed up until 18 hrs ago. C'mon...

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You can not argue against your point that he's has top five stats. As others have noted though he had top 1 stats for the first 7 games and then average at best stats the last 8 games. Over the course of the full season to be a top 5 QB is great in a vacuum but when you add in that he has the no1 arsenal of weapons (easily) and without checking a top 3 pay check and cap hit it does not correlate to success IMO. You could take about 10 QBs in the league today who would have top 5 stats if they had Denvers weapons and would do it with a much lower cap hit. If he didn't have D Thomas and Sanders playing lights out and making ridiculous routes and catches his numbers would be average!

That said arguing the other way we can't also just take the last 8 games in a vacuum either, if he's playing hurt then he's obviously at a disadvantage. The extent if the injury would have to be taken into consideration as would the recovery process in a decision to being him back or not.

That gif of the foot plant on the Interception smacks if a thigh injury. Foot planting is not as automatic when you are favouring a leg injury.

Looking at Peytons apparent me first attitude over the course of his career I would not be shocked if he came back next season and plays the first 8 or so games to pad his stats in good weather and in a healthy condition and then quit.

1) it would pad his stats further.
2) it would let him go out on a high (relatively speaking in the sense that he'd be playing great!) and not going out on a low of getting abused and playing poorly late in a season.
3) it'd earn him a few million dollars!

That will never happen. Quiting half way through a season would be a disgrace.