Pats players agree: Collins is a freak

patchick said:

The fuming over Harmon in particular is a head-scratcher. He was picked at the very end of round 3 last year and is now the top backup to McCourty. What's the problem?

As for "value," check this out:

- "Inexcusable reach" Duron Harmon has 3 career interceptions and 5 passes defended.
- The 5 DBs selected after him have combined for 1 career interception and 6 passes defended.

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Sad thing is. Most of them just want to whine or pile on Belichick and most of them will not give any thought to the fact that in the NFL on average 75% of all late third round picks end up being busts.

It varies by round, but there is roughly 20-25% different in Bust Rates from the top of any given round to the bottom.

Now guess who has had the worst average draft position of any NFL franchise over the past 14 years?

We have drafted at an average Draft Position of 26. By far the worst in the league. The next worst team I believe is either 21 or 22. Over the last handful of years our average Draft Position is up around 28.

That 25% difference in Bust Rates from the bottom of the round compared the top makes a big difference.. especially when you add up the cumulative effects of drafting behind everyone else for well over a decade.

JMC00 said:

Deus' post after the Pats drafted him.

"Someone needs to drug test Belichick immediately.'

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...nfl-draft-thread.1023448/page-16#post-3438035

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I enjoy Draft days.

Every year Deus throws a tizzy and ends up taking a self-imposed vacation to as he puts it, take a break from all the idiots on the board.

Thinking that you know more than everyone else in the world must be such a burden to bare

And while I do mean that in a snarky, scolding kind of way, it's also very true. I'm pretty sure I enjoy football more than he does because of my ignorance (compared to his) because of that ignorance (along with a healthy dose of humility) I can sit back, trust that things will work out for the best and not freak out every time Belichick picks somebody that wasn't on my board. ie: I Trust In Belichick.

He makes plays. I have longed for player such as Jamie and I am so glad we have him. We have had players who just make tackles whether it is after the first down marker or not, they just rack up the stats.
Jamie stands out. He makes plays. Hightower also makes plays that sack was so HUGE.

Maybe that's what Miami was sending to the Nfl. Contending that Collins clearly has cheat codes

Only player this year with

70+ solo tackles
3+ Sacks
2+ INT
3+ FF
http://www.pro-football-reference.c...pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y

Whatever drugs Bill was on when he decided to take Collins he needs to be on every draft.

Danger Zone said:

so why don't you have Christiancat replying to every one of your posts that do so to scold you for being mean to "one of the nicest posters on the board"?

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He probably doesn't say enough negative things about Tebow and/or Kaepernick

Danger Zone said:

I enjoy Draft days.

Every year Deus throws a tizzy and ends up taking a self-imposed vacation to as he puts it, take a break from all the idiots on the board.

Thinking that you know more than everyone else in the world must be such a burden to bare

And while I do mean that in a snarky, scolding kind of way, it's also very true. I'm pretty sure I enjoy football more than he does because of my ignorance (compared to his) because of that ignorance (along with a healthy dose of humility) I can sit back, trust that things will work out for the best and not freak out every time Belichick picks somebody that wasn't on my board. ie: I Trust In Belichick.

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Ever since Devin McCourty I have learned to trust Bill enough to realize he knows 100 times more then I do about building a football team and he is right more often then he is wrong which is really all you can ask for in regards to drafting. I was fuming throwing things screaming not another f%@$ing surf corner. Turned out to be a pretty good player so now I give very draft pick a couple years no matter how much it causes me to scratch my head at the time.

pazrul72 said:

Ever since Devin McCourty I have learned to trust Bill enough to realize he knows 100 times more then I do about building a football team and he is right more often then he is wrong which is really all you can ask for in regards to drafting. I was fuming throwing things screaming not another f%@$ing surf corner. Turned out to be a pretty good player so now I give very draft pick a couple years no matter how much it causes me to scratch my head at the time.

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And hey, you know, I absolutely get why it drives critics of Belichick crazy when other posters immediately fall back on the In Bill I Trust and You Dont Know As Much About Football as Belichick counter arguments.

But that doesnt mean these stances aren't ever valid or even true in many cases.

Take the show Hard Knocks. How many of us have watched that show and felt that we had a better understanding for the players involved. Woodhead became a bit of a binky for many of us because we really liked what we saw of him behind the scenes.

Now that show is just an hour.. and a highly edited hour at that. Belichick interviews these kids. Works them out. Talks to them. Hears their responses. Gets a feel for them.

Thats something that just cant be replicated on Internet.

I have always said and admitted that Belichick deserved criticism for letting Welker walk over a few measly million. But what got me Ignored by Deus and baah baah'd at because I was just another mindless sheep (along with literally dozens of sheep/clone/yippy little dog insults) was that I argued with him that no matter what, mistake or not, Belichick wasn't an "Machiavellian wannabe idiot" among other things because really we have no idea why makes the moves he does. The argument being of course was that it was perfectly obvious that Belichick made these moves out of hubris and out of the need to show that he's smarter than the rest of the league.

Maybe thats true. But without knowing what went on because closed doors, assuming you know the reason why Belichick does things is basically saying "I can read minds".

Well, I cant. And that is one of many reasons I Trust in Belichick. Criticize him all you want. The man makes mistakes. But please dont tell me that he is an idiot. Or if you do, expect to have your hyperbole matched in kind.

but do the players know he was a horrible pick at that spot!?!?

Danger Zone said:

And hey, you know, I absolutely get why it drives critics of Belichick crazy when other posters immediately fall back on the In Bill I Trust and You Dont Know As Much About Football as Belichick counter arguments.

But that doesnt mean these stances aren't ever valid or even true in many cases.

Take the show Hard Knocks. How many of us have watched that show and felt that we had a better understanding for the players involved. Woodhead became a bit of a binky for many of us because we really liked what we saw of him behind the scenes.

Now that show is just an hour.. and a highly edited hour at that. Belichick interviews these kids. Works them out. Talks to them. Hears their responses. Gets a feel for them.

Thats something that just cant be replicated on Internet.

I have always said and admitted that Belichick deserved criticism for letting Welker walk over a few measly million. But what got me Ignored by Deus and baah baah'd at because I was just another mindless sheep (along with literally dozens of sheep/clone/yippy little dog insults) was that I argued with him that no matter what, mistake or not, Belichick wasn't an "Machiavellian wannabe idiot" among other things because really we have no idea why makes the moves he does. The argument being of course was that it was perfectly obvious that Belichick made these moves out of hubris and out of the need to show that he's smarter than the rest of the league.

Maybe thats true. But without knowing what went on because closed doors, assuming you know the reason why Belichick does things is basically saying "I can read minds".

Well, I cant. And that is one of many reasons I Trust in Belichick. Criticize him all you want. The man makes mistakes. But please dont tell me that he is an idiot. Or if you do, expect to have your hyperbole matched in kind.

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I started this thread on the draft board:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...reads/the-fo-knows-what-theyre-doing.1114051/

The Pats make mistakes. Lots of them. But that doesn't mean that there wasn't a plan that made sense at the time.

Brady_to_Moss said:

but do the players know he was a horrible pick at that spot!?!?

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Based on the "why this draft pick was wrong" flowchart "they could have drafted him in a later round".

mayoclinic said:

I started this thread on the draft board:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...reads/the-fo-knows-what-theyre-doing.1114051/

The Pats make mistakes. Lots of them. But that doesn't mean that there wasn't a plan that made sense at the time.

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It's why my question for people who say the Garoppolo pick was a mistake is, "Why were they so eager to make that mistake, then, that they handed the card the moment they were on the clock?"

vuudu said:

He makes plays. I have longed for player such as Jamie and I am so glad we have him. We have had players who just make tackles whether it is after the first down marker or not, they just rack up the stats.
Jamie stands out. He makes plays. Hightower also makes plays that sack was so HUGE.

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I don't think it's a coincidence that you're raving about the LBs making plays now that we finally have corners who can force QBs to hold the ball long enough for their delayed inside blitzes, stunts, etc. to get home.

Not to take credit away from Hightower and Collins, they've been awesome. But I think it's a very symbiotic thing. Even the small stuff, like chasing a RB after he catches a quick pass coming out of the backfield. Hightower, in particular, consistently gets to those guys and brings them down a good few yards before the first down, and in years past that wasn't always the case.

Kind of a bummer that Mayo had to get hurt so early in the season where we finally have the corners to make a guy like him shine. He was playing out of his mind for a few weeks there.

ctpatsfan77 said:

It's why my question for people who say the Garoppolo pick was a mistake is, "Why were they so eager to make that mistake, then, that they handed the card the moment they were on the clock?"

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Even with the much-maligned Tavon Wilson pick, I think it's clear that the Pats valued Wilson's versatility and potential to play the "star" position as a hybrid LB/S (a role that they used him in from the outset). Compare Wilson's measurables with those of Kenny Vaccaro, another player who fits that role (and plays it for the Saints), taken #15 overall the next year:

Wilson: 5' 11 3/4", 205#; 4.52 40, 1.60 10-split; 4.16SS, 7.043C; 32" VJ, 10'4" BJ, 17 reps BP
Vaccaro: 6' 0" 214#; 4.59 40, 1.62 10-split; 4.06 SS, 6.783C; 38" VJ, 10'1" BJ, 15 reps BP

Both guys played similar roles in college, one in the Big 10, one in the Big 12. BB noted Wilson's versatility after he made the pick:

"He played plenty. You can see him plenty at Illinois," Belichick said. "You can see him against whoever you want to see him against: all the Big Ten schools, Arizona State, teams that throw the ball. He's playing corner, he's playing safety, he's playing the inside positions, the nickel position, the dime position -- Michigan State, they're a good passing team; Michigan, they're a spread-out offense team. There's a lot of passing in that conference, Northwestern, all those teams."

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http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7865727/tavon-wilson-reach-round-2-not-bill-belichick

Wilson may not have developed as hoped, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a plan that made sense. The line between success and failure is also a thin one: Vaccaro struggled this season when he tried to play more of a true strong safety role, rather than being used as a hybrid:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/po...caro-rob-ryan-both-prefer-vaccaro-in-add-role

There aren't that many prospects with the kind of versatility and skill set that Wilson had coming out, so I can see why the Pats may have valued him. Obviously, it hasn't worked out so far, though he's shown some flashes. But it's the same kind of hybrid role that Pat Chung played well against Denver earlier this year. Chung, Wilson and Ebner all have the raw talent and potential to play that role, but it seems to be a hard one to do well. My guess is that it's an important role for BB, and he'll keep trying to fill it until he finds someone who sticks.

BradyFTW! said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that you're raving about the LBs making plays now that we finally have corners who can force QBs to hold the ball long enough for their delayed inside blitzes, stunts, etc. to get home.

Not to take credit away from Hightower and Collins, they've been awesome. But I think it's a very symbiotic thing. Even the small stuff, like chasing a RB after he catches a quick pass coming out of the backfield. Hightower, in particular, consistently gets to those guys and brings them down a good few yards before the first down, and in years past that wasn't always the case.

Kind of a bummer that Mayo had to get hurt so early in the season where we finally have the corners to make a guy like him shine. He was playing out of his mind for a few weeks there.

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He makes plays and that is what the eye test tells me. You don't have corners on Field goals to help you there. In two years he has 2 Int. Momentum swinging Ints. The blitzes and stunts are all just gravy to me. They are not the reason I am raving about Collins.

mayoclinic said:

Even with the much-maligned Tavon Wilson pick, I think it's clear that the Pats valued Wilson's versatility and potential to play the "star" position as a hybrid LB/S (a role that they used him in from the outset). Compare Wilson's measurables with those of Kenny Vaccaro, another player who fits that role (and plays it for the Saints), taken #15 overall the next year:

Wilson: 5' 11 3/4", 205#; 4.52 40, 1.60 10-split; 4.16SS, 7.043C; 32" VJ, 10'4" BJ, 17 reps BP
Vaccaro: 6' 0" 214#; 4.59 40, 1.62 10-split; 4.06 SS, 6.783C; 38" VJ, 10'1" BJ, 15 reps BP

Both guys played similar roles in college, one in the Big 10, one in the Big 12. BB noted Wilson's versatility after he made the pick:



http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7865727/tavon-wilson-reach-round-2-not-bill-belichick

Wilson may not have developed as hoped, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a plan that made sense. The line between success and failure is also a thin one: Vaccaro struggled this season when he tried to play more of a true strong safety role, rather than being used as a hybrid:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/po...caro-rob-ryan-both-prefer-vaccaro-in-add-role

There aren't that many prospects with the kind of versatility and skill set that Wilson had coming out, so I can see why the Pats may have valued him. Obviously, it hasn't worked out so far, though he's shown some flashes. But it's the same kind of hybrid role that Pat Chung played well against Denver earlier this year. Chung, Wilson and Ebner all have the raw talent and potential to play that role, but it seems to be a hard one to do well. My guess is that it's an important role for BB, and he'll keep trying to fill it until he finds someone who sticks.

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Bingo

Why this concept was so hard to understand at draft time is mind boggling.

The reality is it's kinda on the coaching staff for not making him a defensive X factor vs a straight safety.

patsfanincleveland said:

Bingo

Why this concept was so hard to understand at draft time is mind boggling.

The reality is it's kinda on the coaching staff for not making him a defensive X factor vs a straight safety.

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It's not an easy role to fill, and when he first started in 2012 the secondary had huge holes. Chung also struggled terribly that year. Now that the structure is there with the big outside CBs and McCourty at FS, it's a lot easier to see where the hybrid "Star" DB fits. I think that is a key position in the defense down the road, and I expect BB to follow his usual pattern with a position that he values of attempting to fill it repeatedly until he finds someone who succeeds.

Not only is he a freak, he ate all the cupcakes the Mayo family got for Santa this is from the rather great "a lil Mayo" segments on patriots.com...

http://m.patriots.com/media-center/...hristmas/286663a4-4546-4a8b-bbdf-61d8973c9237

(That part is near the end when she's talking to Edelman).

ctpatsfan77 said:

It's why my question for people who say the Garoppolo pick was a mistake is, "Why were they so eager to make that mistake, then, that they handed the card the moment they were on the clock?"

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There's going to be a lot of funny necro threads about Aladin. He's going to be the Steve Young to Brady's Montana.

If Revis doesn't get locked up...collins is my next jersey purchase this summer