Vollmer's Future

Bobs My Uncle said:

If the OG spots are improved upon Solder and Vollmer will be back to playing as top level OT's.

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They have to block their man regardless of who is next to them.

I think Vollmet has been their most reliable OL all season.

Miquel - could you explain how you have Vollmer's cap number at over 8M for next season when your calculation on his individual page only shows it at 4.9M?

http://www.patscap.com/vollmer.html#vollmer

Is it because of the NLTBE incentive of $2M from this year as well as the LTBE bonus of 1.75M and the $1M roster bonus?

DaBruinz said:

That's a lot for a RT? REALLY? A 3.1M average over the next 2 years?
You and I clearly have different ideas about what is ALOT.

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Cannon's 2015 cap hit of $2.6M might not seem like a lot, but to me, it would be a surprising amount if they just expect him to just be the third tackle, particularly with Fleming in the wings, and/or the ability to draft and develop another guy to pay that position. It puts him in the top 15 or so in terms of hit on the team. I'm not sure what you objected to in my post, because I agree Cannon & Vollmer will be around next year.

The 4+ hit in 2016 would be in the top 6 this year (though we can assume that placement is not going to hold by the time it rolls around as we'll extend and sign other richer contracts.) Nonetheless, it's not insignificant.

BradyManny said:

Cannon's 2015 cap hit of $2.6M might not seem like a lot, but to me, it would be a surprising amount if they just expect him to just be the third tackle, particularly with Fleming in the wings, and/or the ability to draft and develop another guy to pay that position. It puts him in the top 15 or so in terms of hit on the team. I'm not sure what you objected to in my post, because I agree Cannon & Vollmer will be around next year.

The 4+ hit in 2016 would be in the top 6 this year (though we can assume that placement is not going to hold by the time it rolls around as we'll extend and sign other richer contracts.) Nonetheless, it's not insignificant.

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Fleming is your swing tackle in 2015 because unless he agrees to something south of the $7m he is scheduled to be paid next year, (prediction) Solder will not be here in 2015.

BradyManny said:

Cannon's 2015 cap hit of $2.6M might not seem like a lot, but to me, it would be a surprising amount if they just expect him to just be the third tackle, particularly with Fleming in the wings, and/or the ability to draft and develop another guy to pay that position. It puts him in the top 15 or so in terms of hit on the team. I'm not sure what you objected to in my post, because I agree Cannon & Vollmer will be around next year.

The 4+ hit in 2016 would be in the top 6 this year (though we can assume that placement is not going to hold by the time it rolls around as we'll extend and sign other richer contracts.) Nonetheless, it's not insignificant.

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I disagree with your evaluation that Cannon hasn't been good this year.
I also disagree that a salary of 1.2M and his signing bonus of 2.1M put him as a "player being paid like a starter". That's what Good O-line back-ups make.

DaBruinz said:

I disagree with your evaluation that Cannon hasn't been good this year.
I also disagree that a salary of 1.2M and his signing bonus of 2.1M put him as a "player being paid like a starter". That's what Good O-line back-ups make.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Patriots have not paid their backup linemen so well. We typically fill our depth at OL with developed draftees,UDFAs, and PS guys who have been in the Scarnecchia pipeline for a while.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Cannon playing well this year. I do not think he has, at least not at guard, where when the team needed him early on, he couldn't become a fixture in the lineup. However, as I said, I think the team asked a lot of him and that isn't his best position.

maybe it's just me, but i think vollmer has been very good if not great. by far our best OL.
doubt he gets a pro bowl spot though. rt's rarely do.
i have seen him on saw all pro team mocks for whatever that's worth!

AndyJohnson said:

They have to block their man regardless of who is next to them.

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Or in Sunday's case, Solder had to morph into Vishnu to make some of the blocks the guard was leaving him with.

no Tackle in the history of the game could stop 2-3 guys at a time and successfully stop the rush.

As for the topic...why would you cut Vollmer? Or Solder for that matter? OL consistency is the key, cutting one or both of the Tackles is just dumb.

AndyJohnson said:

They have to block their man regardless of who is next to them.

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And both Solder and Vollmer have been fine doing so.

BradyManny said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Patriots have not paid their backup linemen so well. We typically fill our depth at OL with developed draftees,UDFAs, and PS guys who have been in the Scarnecchia pipeline for a while.

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Could you please show me when the Pats have had someone of the Caliber and Ability of a Marcus Cannon as a back-up previously?

BradyManny said:

We'll have to agree to disagree about Cannon playing well this year. I do not think he has, at least not at guard, where when the team needed him early on, he couldn't become a fixture in the lineup. However, as I said, I think the team asked a lot of him and that isn't his best position.

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Fair enough.

DaBruinz said:

Could you please show me when the Pats have had someone of the Caliber and Ability of a Marcus Cannon as a back-up previously?

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Fair point. The guy who springs to mind as being similar to me is Donald Thomas who filled in nicely, but there was less a track record there, and we obviously weren't going to match what he got in Indy. The Wendell situation is probably pretty comparable, and yes, we paid him either as a well-paid backup or a fringe starter, so your point probably holds there too. I have no issue with the Cannon contract.

DaBruinz said:

That's a lot for a RT? REALLY? A 3.1M average over the next 2 years?
You and I clearly have different ideas about what is ALOT.

Vollmer has 4.2M guaranteed regardless of whether he's on the team.
Cannon just got his extension. He's not going anywhere.

Please explain the logic to your thinking that the Pats will cut one of them.. Because it's got to be something no one else is seeing..

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6m per year new cash for vollmer. Total cap hits in each year of 6m plus 2.1m approximately of sb amortization.

Total cap hits of 8m in each of next two years up from 4 this year.

Solder seems too inconsistent for a 7.5m one year contract.

Could see one getting cut.

DaBruinz said:

You really need to do a better job of checking your facts.

Belichick is not paying Cannon over $4M for 2015. Cannon's Salary is just $1.2M. His total cap number is just 2.616M. $1.55M Cash.

http://www.patscap.com/cannon.html#cannon

With 4.19M in guaranteed money for 2015, the likelihood of Vollmer being gone is slim to none.

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So, Cannon gave his $3.2M bonus check to you or did he tear it up. Cannon just received $3.2M and will receive $1.2M. The total is $4.4M in Cannon's pocket. That doesn't count his 2015 bonus (roster, workout, weight). That bring the total to $4.750M. Even that $4.750M does not include any incentive bonus earned during the year.

Big-T said:

Or in Sunday's case, Solder had to morph into Vishnu to make some of the blocks the guard was leaving him with.

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No, no, no. Solder is responsible for whoever he is responsible for. He doesn't block better or worse depending upon how well the guy next to him blocks his man.

no Tackle in the history of the game could stop 2-3 guys at a time and successfully stop the rush.

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That doesn't make a T better or worse depending on who is next to him.
The OL is better or worse based on each player, but some people on this board like to imply that a T doesn't block his own man well because he thinks he has to go over and block the Gs man, which is crazy.

As for the topic...why would you cut Vollmer? Or Solder for that matter? OL consistency is the key, cutting one or both of the Tackles is just dumb.

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I would keep them both. (Or use Solders big $$ on someone better if possible)

mgteich said:

So, Cannon gave his $3.2M bonus check to you or did he tear it up. Cannon just received $3.2M and will receive $1.2M. The total is $4.4M in Cannon's pocket.

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The bonus is for 2 years.

mgteich said:

So, Cannon gave his $3.2M bonus check to you or did he tear it up. Cannon just received $3.2M and will receive $1.2M. The total is $4.4M in Cannon's pocket. That doesn't count his 2015 bonus (roster, workout, weight). That bring the total to $4.750M. Even that $4.750M does not include any incentive bonus earned during the year.

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By the way, per Miguels page, Cannon did NOT just get 3.2 million.

The deal includes a $3.2 million signing bonus to be paid out in three installments: $1.2 million upon agreement, $1 million on March 31, 2015 and $1 million on October 31, 2015.

AndyJohnson said:

By the way, per Miguels page, Cannon did NOT just get 3.2 million.

The deal includes a $3.2 million signing bonus to be paid out in three installments: $1.2 million upon agreement, $1 million on March 31, 2015 and $1 million on October 31, 2015.

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Yes, this provides injury protection for the patriots.

What do you expect?

By October 31, 2015, Cannon will have $4.750M. I agree that the bonus was spread.
So, I would say that Cannon gets $3.750M for 2016 if he stays.

Let us do it you way and spread the bonus.

2015
$1.550 plus $1.600M = only $3.150M

2016
$1.6M bonus WHETHER HE PLAYS OR NOT
$3.750M
total = $5.375M

I find it more reasonable think of this as $4.75M in 2015 and $3.75M in 2016 (if the team decides to keep him).
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If Cannon plays both years, he will get $8.50M plus incentives (or $4.25ZM per year)
If Cannon plays one year, he will get $4.75M plus incentives
Do you disagree?

DaBruinz said:

Miquel - could you explain how you have Vollmer's cap number at over 8M for next season when your calculation on his individual page only shows it at 4.9M?

http://www.patscap.com/vollmer.html#vollmer

Is it because of the NLTBE incentive of $2M from this year as well as the LTBE bonus of 1.75M and the $1M roster bonus?

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Will fix

DaBruinz said:

You really need to do a better job of checking your facts.

Belichick is not paying Cannon over $4M for 2015. Cannon's Salary is just $1.2M. His total cap number is just 2.616M. $1.55M Cash.

http://www.patscap.com/cannon.html#cannon

With 4.19M in guaranteed money for 2015, the likelihood of Vollmer being gone is slim to none.

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Remember that Cannon also has a signing bonus this year for the deal. So that's an extra 1M. Add some easily earned incentives(weight and 46man roster bonus) an he counts for about $4M next year. not 2.6M