Speculation: Josh McDaniels to replace Jim Harbaugh as 49ers head coach?

Rob0729 said:

No! It is like I understand the meaning of elite defenses.

The Seahawks are an elite defense. Week in and week out they dominante. Regular season and the playoffs.

The 2006 Colts are far from an elite defense. They had a historically bad defense in the regular season. Their defense dominated a few bad offenses in the playoffs (struggled against the one good offense they faced) does not turn a historically bad defense into an elite defense. It is a bad defense that got hot in the playoffs. Big difference than elite defense.

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So the Super Bowl has been won by one elite defense in the last 13 years? Several SB champs defenses have gone from mediocre to elite in the playoffs. It happens seemingly every year.

Rob0729 said:

LOL! Apparently, I don't watch the games you watch. I watch NFL games. What league do you watch?

Let's go through the players:

Peyton Manning - during the season their defense sucked. It got good in the playoffs with the return of Bob Sanders, but not elite. The Pats still scored 34 points against them with no WRs. They faced two bad offenses in the prior two games (plus Herm Edwards brilliantly decided to only run Larry Johnson 13 times even though he was the league leader during the regular season in rushing).

Eli Manning - Both teams had an elite d-line, but mediocre back seven. Good, not elite defenses

Drew Brees - Slightly above average defense with the ability to turn over the ball. Much like the Pats in many years where many here trashed the defense.

Aaron Rodgers - Very good, not elite defense

Joe Flacco - Average defense in the regular season (people forget they lost four games in a row down the stretch). Good defense in the playoffs, but struggled at times in the playoffs.

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The NFL is not Madden football where elite defense gives up zero points.

Teams that advance in the playoffs have units playing elite ball. Elite defenses will give up points to elite offenses. Unless your the 85 Bears or the 2001 Ravens.

And to your point that these teams didn't have a decent running game? LMAO. Clearly you didn't watch these games.

VrabelJr said:

So the Super Bowl has been won by one elite defense in the last 13 years? Several SB champs defenses have gone from mediocre to elite in the playoffs. It happens seemingly every year.

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Never said that. The Steelers had an elite defense.

The Super Bowl winners the last decade has shown that the team that usually wins is the team that gets hot in the playoffs rather than the best team. Six of the last ten winners played Wild Card Weekend which means they were no better than the third best regular season team in their conference ( a few have been one of the worst teams going into the playoffs and everyone thought they were one and done like the 2007 Giants and the 2012 Ravens). It is all about who is the hottest in the playoffs not who is the best team.

I don't care much for mcdaniels.......he has his moments, but things go flat way too often

I would not be opposed to bringing back charlie weis

condon84 said:

The NFL is not Madden football where elite defense gives up zero points.

Teams that advance in the playoffs have units playing elite ball. Elite defenses will give up points to elite offenses. Unless your the 85 Bears or the 2001 Ravens.

And to your point that these teams didn't have a decent running game? LMAO. You didn't watch these games.

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Funny, I seem to understand this isn't Madden more than you. You apparently do not understand what an elite defense is. You are arguing that even though defenses aren't near the top in things like points allowed, yards allowed, opposing QB rating, third down conversion percentage, etc. they are still elite.

I am judging the defenses vs. their competition for that given year. None of them other than Green Bay (I was wrong about them) were elite (5th in total defense and 2nd in scoring).

Let's look at the 2009 Saints. Their defense was ranked 25th in total defense and 20th in points allowed. How is that an elite defense? They were average at best that just turned over the ball a lot.

Again, a defense that is average or worse in the regular season and gets hot in the playoffs is not elite defense. I am saying Kaepernick is not capable of getting to the playoffs without an elite defense. So who cares if an average defense can get elite in the playoffs if they cannot get into the playoffs.

Rob0729 said:

Again, a defense that is average or worse in the regular season and gets hot in the playoffs is not elite defense. I am saying Kaepernick is not capable of getting to the playoffs without an elite defense. So who cares if an average defense can get elite in the playoffs if they cannot get into the playoffs.

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Why is it not elite? Because regular season stats told you so?

condon84 said:

Why is it not elite? Because regular season stats told you so?

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By definition, an elite defense does not give up a lot of yard nor a lot of points. So regular season stats are a decent measuring stick. The fact that say a team like the 2009 Saints were in the bottom third of the league in yards and points allowed clearly states that they were not an elite defense. You cannot be an elite defense and let 19 other teams give up less points than you.

We can go through all the defenses. The 2007 Giants were 13th in points allowed. The 2011 Giants were 16th. The 2006 Colts were 23rd. The 2012 Ravens were 12th. Tell me how you can be an elite defense and not be in the top 2-3 (or at least top 5) in points allowed? An elite defense gives up the fewest points.

And again, an average defense in the regular season and an elite defense in 3-4 games in the playoffs does not make an elite defense. An elite defense plays like an elite defense for long stretches of the season (at least half the season, but should be much more). Otherwise, they are a defense that just got hot at the right time.

And one last time, I am talking about Kaepernick needing an elite defense to win in the regular season, not the playoffs.

Rob0729 said:

By definition, an elite defense does not give up a lot of yard nor a lot of points. So regular season stats are a decent measuring stick. The fact that say a team like the 2009 Saints were in the bottom third of the league in yards and points allowed clearly states that they were not an elite defense. You cannot be an elite defense and let 19 other teams give up less points than you.

We can go through all the defenses. The 2007 Giants were 13th in points allowed. The 2011 Giants were 16th. The 2006 Colts were 23rd. The 2012 Ravens were 12th. Tell me how you can be an elite defense and not be in the top 2-3 (or at least top 5) in points allowed? An elite defense gives up the fewest points.

And again, an average defense in the regular season and an elite defense in 3-4 games in the playoffs does not make an elite defense. An elite defense plays like an elite defense for long stretches of the season (at least half the season, but should be much more). Otherwise, they are a defense that just got hot at the right time.

And one last time, I am talking about Kaepernick needing an elite defense to win in the regular season, not the playoffs.

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So using your regular season stats logic, Brady was not considered elite when he won those SBs?

condon84 said:

So using your regular season stats logic, Brady was not considered elite when he won those SBs?

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I am using what I watched backed up by stats. And we are talking about Kaepernick needing a regular season elite defense to get to the playoffs. So the regular season matters. Besides, to be an elite defense, you have to play like an elite defense for more than 2-4 playoff games.

And other than 2004, no Brady wasn't elite when he won the Super Bowls. He was a game manager in his first Super Bowl and not elite in 2003 because the Pats' elite defense carried the offense a lot that year.

But we are talking about a different era. The pre-Polian *****ing to the rules committee to change the rules.
Again, I was asked for QBs who won Super Bowls without elite defenses. I gave a number of them and backed it up with explaining why and statistics. Your only rebuttal has been "obviously you didn't watch the games" which is the "I know you are, but what am I" version of debating.

If the 2006 Colts defense, the 2007 Giants defense, the 2009 Saints defense, the 2011 Giants defense, and the 2012 Ravens defense were all elite; give an actual reason why you feel that way and back it up with anything remotely resembling proof.

Otherwise, apologize and stop beating a dead horse when you are wrong.

patsinthesnow said:

11-17 as a head coach with the Broncos
Coordinated the 32nd ranked scoring offense in 2011 on the Rams
Coordinated top level offenses with Brady, Moss, Gronk, etc.

IMO, his resume doesn't look that pretty. I'm surprised his name is always mentioned with numerous jobs.

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Tom Brady will make any OC look better that what they really are. We have seen how Josh, Charlie Weiss and Bill O'Brien have fared with no Brady in the line up. Brady has been playing with third-string type WRs, outside of Moss and Gronk, suspect O-lines and scrubbish play calling and for the last 4-5 years a garbage defense and he still managed to drag this team to 11-12+ wins per year, the playoffs and 2 SB appearances, that he could've won, if not for luck and Wes Welker and people have the audacity to continue to try and convince me that Rodgers, Manning, Brees and now Romo or Wilson are even close to as good as THE freaking Tom Brady. Spare me. Send that lousy McDaniels on to SF. Promote one of the other QB coaches to OC and let Brady earn him too another job elsewhere in the next couple years.

Rob0729 said:

I wouldn't want the San Fran job. He is stuck with Kaepernick. Frank Gore is on his last legs. The defense is declining a bit. The NFC West is a brutal division.

Personally, I think if McDaniels leaves, he goes to Atlanta.

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This is a good point. The 9ers are on the way down. The DC will probably leave.
You are stuck with a bad, bad QB. And you are following the guy who resurrected the franchise and is loved by the fans, and going to work for the guy who pushed that coach out the door. No thanks.

mgteich said:

Yes, posters here think less of Josh than the GM's of other teams. I'm not saying that Josh will get a head coaching job this off-season, just that he will be considered.

Belichick has prepared for the eventuality with Daboll on board.

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God I hope you are wrong. Daboll is a terrible OC. I'd rather dust of the shell of a coach that Charlie Weis has become.

LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady said:

Tom Brady will make any OC look better that what they really are. We have seen how Josh, Charlie Weiss and Bill O'Brien have fared with no Brady in the line up. Brady has been playing with third-string type WRs, outside of Moss, suspect O-lines and scrubbish play calling and for the last 4-5 years a garbage defense and he still managed to drag this team to 11-12+ wins per year, the playoffs and 2 SB appearances, that he could've won, if not for luck and Wes Welker and people have the audacity to continue to try and convince me that Rodgers, Manning, Brees and now Romo or Wilson are even close to as good as THE freaking Tom Brady. Spare me. Send that lousy McDaniels on to SF. Promote one of the other QB coaches to OC and let Brady earn him too another job elsewhere in the next couple years.

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Weis and McDaniels both got Pro Bowl level play out of Matt Cassel. O'Brien rebuilt a Penn State program after the scandal, and he's now got a Texans team still in the wild card hunt, despite having lost its top 2 QBs, who weren't great to start with.

So, yeah, we've seen that they are all good even without Brady.

Rob0729 said:

If the 2006 Colts defense, the 2007 Giants defense, the 2009 Saints defense, the 2011 Giants defense, and the 2012 Ravens defense were all elite; give an actual reason why you feel that way and back it up with anything remotely resembling proof.

Otherwise, apologize and stop beating a dead horse when you are wrong.

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Apologize for what? That you made a dumb assertion that those teams were did not have elite defenses when they won the SB?

I asked

"Without an elite defense or a running game, name me a QB who has won championships"

And you named QBs whose defense were playing elite ball when they won championships. Plus you made an even dumber assertion that they also did not have an even decent running game. Explain how you came to that conclusion.

AndyJohnson said:

I'd rather dust of the shell of a coach that Charlie Weis has become.

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I would not. I am sorry but he has been squatting on his resume for a while now. He has been great a decade ago but a lot is moving at a frantic pace in the NFL and I am not sure if he can keep up at this point.


I would love to have a person with fresh(er) ideas. I wonder if we could steal Godsey back from the Texans if we were to offer him the OC position.

He was with us for 3 years (assistant, TE) so it would not really be an outside hire. This year he worked with the QBs in Houston. His basic approach should be not too far off what O'Brien was running here and I would love to see more emphasis on TEs.

luuked said:

I would not. I am sorry but he has been squatting on his resume for a while now. He has been great a decade ago but a lot is moving at a frantic pace in the NFL and I am not sure if he can keep up at this point.


I would love to have a person with fresh(er) ideas. I wonder if we could steal Godsey back from the Texans if we were to offer him the OC position.

He was with us for 3 years (assistant, TE) so it would not really be an outside hire. This year he worked with the QBs in Houston. His basic approach should be not too far off what O'Brien was running here and I would love to see more emphasis on TEs.

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My point wasn't that I want Weis, he was the horrible alternative that would still even be better than Daboll.

AndyJohnson said:

My point wasn't that I want Weis, he was the horrible alternative that would still even be better than Daboll.

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Gotcha. Misread that sentence. That being said, what are you basing your Daboll discomfort on ? His time in Miami/KC ?

condon84 said:

Apologize for what? That you made a dumb assertion that those teams were did not have elite defenses when they won the SB?

I asked

"Without an elite defense or a running game, name me a QB who has won championships"

And you named QBs whose defense were playing elite ball when they won championships. Plus you made an even dumber assertion that they also did not have an even decent running game. Explain how you came to that conclusion.

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I give you credit condon, I asked you to come back with a argument explaining why you think the defense I stated were elite with some evidence to back it up. And you didn't disappoint. You totally ignored the question and tried to change the subject with more of your stupidity trying to throw it back on me.

And it is not a stupid assertion to claim defenses weren't elite when they were clearly were not elite. Only a moron would maintain the 2006 Colts' defense or the 2009 Saints defense were elite.

And you asked that question and I gave you an answer that was right but you refuse to admit it.

So were the 2006 Colts defense elite when they gave up 34 points to the Pats in the AFCCG? Or the 2009 Saints elite when they gave up 28 points to the Packers in the NFCCG?

Just because you are too slow to understand the difference between an elite defense and defenses that step up their game in the playoffs for a handful of games. An elite defense plays like an elite defense for more than handful of games. There is no way to argue against it although you try.

And lastly, I said SOME of the teams I mentioned didn't have an elite running game. Many of them did. The 2011 Giants didn't since they were in last place in the league in rushing (both in total yards and YPA).

You really have to get what elite defense is. An elite defense is not based on a handful of games. I mean this year's Colts' defense is crappy and if they go into the playoffs and hold their opponents over their first two playoff games to 3 points each and then lose in the AFFCG by 40 points doesn't mean they had an elite defense. It means their defense played elite for two games, but their defense itself wasn't elite.

BTW, how many Super Bowls has Kaepernick won with an elite defense and running game?

Brady wanted to uptempo in the first half yesterday. He was visibly upset about the playcalling. The "genius" called three passing plays to start the game off...3 and out with a ten yard sack. Second series the genius calls an off tackle run that nets 4 yards, then calls an "up the middle" loser that loses 2 yards followed by an incompletion.

Kline was obviously LOST out there and heavily contributed to the failure of the passing attack in the 1st half. Meanwhile, the genius, seeing the Jets unbalanced D lineup, continues to make calls that run right at the overload! Over and over. After every failed run the same plodding back to the huddle giving the Jets the full benefit to recover and then...more of the same.

A light goes off somewhere..(Brady???) and Kline gets replaced by Wendell and Fleming inserted. Still, no sign of any uptempo offense. Meanwhile, the entire day is one big bend/don't break zone extravaganza aimed at limiting the awesome passing talents of the incomparable Geee-No!!

The 4th quarter begins, they start to play man in the secondary, they begin to blitz the fetal-alcohol syndrome tiny eared freak and the game suddenly turns. Vareen is ripping off chunks and yet, seeing all this, the genius STILL calls a sideline out down near the red zone that should have been intercepted.

3 series in the 1st quarter...all failures. No uptempo. No pass blocking. I have to wonder...what exactly WAS the plan going in??

Both the offensive & defensive game plans were incompressible to me.