OT - MVP award

Salva135 said:

Pats-Packers was really the MVP Bowl. If Brady had dominated in GB, he'd be the frontrunner. Just didn't work out. As others have said, the only way Rodgers loses this award is if they screw themselves over the last two games, especially in Detroit.

I also think that the voters would love to give Rodgers a 2nd MVP award, as he has been largely ignored in the Brady-Manning hype. And I wouldn't complain. Rodgers is freaking awesome.

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Rodgers just got shut down in Buffalo. Using your theory, how do people justify Rodgers over Brady if Brady does better against Buffalo for the second time this year?

If the Patriots win out I think,it will actually go to Brady. He would definitely get my vote.

Salva135 said:

Pats-Packers was really the MVP Bowl. If Brady had dominated in GB, he'd be the frontrunner. Just didn't work out. As others have said, the only way Rodgers loses this award is if they screw themselves over the last two games, especially in Detroit.

I also think that the voters would love to give Rodgers a 2nd MVP award, as he has been largely ignored in the Brady-Manning hype. And I wouldn't complain. Rodgers is freaking awesome.

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One thing that isn't brought up much is Rodgers isn't very good at end of games. He only has 11 game winning drives in his career. Both Wilson and Luck already have more. Brady has 6 over the past two years while Rodgers only 2. Not to say Rodgers isn't one of the best, but he doesn't come back in the 4th quarter very often. That's really the only knock on him for me. Also most of his are against Detroit should those really count? (kidding of course)

No doubt Gronk lifts the Pats offense to elite levels....but...even still...my list of SKILL players that deserve consideration...in order....
1) Murray.......the Cowboys ride his coattails like no other player
2) Bell......only Murray eclipses his total production
3) Antonio Brown.....same number of TDs as Gronk but 400 yds more offense. The most consistent WR in the NFL
4) Gronk..... first 4 weeks were subdued...but his value to this team is well known here. Gronk's main obstacle is that he isn't the most valuable Patriot....maybe not even top 2

I would vote for Watt as MVP. In my mind, he is a flawless performer who impacts every play when he is on the field. A few QBs have the same effect.......but Watt's year has been special.....and no QB this year deserves the "special" label

Pessimistic Pete said:

Anyways, as far as Brady vs Rodgers, the only way Brady gets it is if the Packers somehow don't win the NFC North, which I see as highly improbable.

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I wouldn't rule out the Lions winning their next 2 games (vs Chicago, Green Bay) and therefore winning the NFC North.

I know it's in Lambeau, but look at what Atlanta did there. The Lions, while they've underachieved on offense all year, can definitely put up points similar to how the Falcons did. Only difference is Detroit has a great defense. Especially their aggressive DL (like the Bills who just beat GB). Lions held Green Bay to 7 points earlier this year, too.

Froob said:

One thing that isn't brought up much is Rodgers isn't very good at end of games. He only has 11 game winning drives in his career. Both Wilson and Luck already have more. Brady has 6 over the past two years while Rodgers only 2. Not to say Rodgers isn't one of the best, but he doesn't come back in the 4th quarter very often. That's really the only knock on him for me. Also most of his are against Detroit should those really count? (kidding of course)

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I wish they would put GWD stats in context; the fact that Rodgers only has 2 isn't, in and of itself, a horrible thing. It's possible he only has two because the Pack have been leading so often in the 4th quarter. Or maybe he's had 10 chances and only won two, I don't know.

I would love the MVP to go to a non-QB, and it would be nice if was awarded for performance rather than statistics, but unfortunately we are as obsessed with numbers as the UK is with the royal family.

For sheer consistency at an elite level throughout the season there really is only one contender and that is Watt. He should not be penalized for being a defender (LT was the last defensive winner), nor should his efforts be diminished because of his team's results, although I do understand that for many it dilutes the strength of his case. He has been a terror on both sides of the ball, and if not him then I have to believe the answer for when will the next defensive winner be, is never.

Gronk suffered from not being fully ready to play at the beginning of the season, yet has been outstanding in the last half dozen games.

Both Brady and Rogers have had a couple of howlers each, though they have also been surgical on several occasions.

I don't want Brady to get it for the jinx it brings lately on SB wins, but also because this really hasn't been one of his most stellar seasons (great but not stellar), and frankly Rogers has been better.

BUT, and here I have my long time question mark on Rogers, Packer #12 lacks resilience under pressure. This year 3 of the losses have come against good defenses away from home. His only comeback was against Miami on the road. When I was checking his history I was shocked to see that he has only had 7 comebacks in his career, which puts him at 141st on the list along with Rex Grossman, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Tony Eason. Coincidentally it also puts him 1 behind Matt Cassell and Kyle Orton. Compare that to Manning's 41 and Brady's 32 and I believe it is indicative of a weakness in his game. A weakness he has exhibited more than once this season.

But since stats will predominate the third best player will probably win it easily.

doesntmatter1 said:

Just give it to Watt already. Manning has been off his game. Rodgers has had two bad performances against Seattle and the Bills. And Brady had a rough start plus still is struggling to hit deep passes. Demarco and Leveon Bell owe most of their season to their line, especially Zach Martin and DeCastro.

Imho 1-Watt 2-Gronk 3- Rodgers

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I'm not sure how JJ Watt can qualify for "most valuable player" when his team is 7-7. If you swap Brady, Rodgers,or Manning for Watt on the Houston Texans, I guarantee their record would be better than .500.

If you would object that this is simply because QB's can influence the game more, well, you'd be right, and you'd be explaining why the award goes to a QB every season.

Salva135 said:

I also think that the voters would love to give Rodgers a 2nd MVP award, as he has been largely ignored in the Brady-Manning hype. And I wouldn't complain. Rodgers is freaking awesome.

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Rodgers was insane in that game, and with two guys having very similarly impressive years, it basically decided the MVP between them. It's too bad because on neutral turf, I think Brady gets him - hopefully he has the chance in February to prove it.

Rodgers is really, really good. I would not object to Brady losing MVP to him.

ctpatsfan77 said:

I wish they would put GWD stats in context; the fact that Rodgers only has 2 isn't, in and of itself, a horrible thing. It's possible he only has two because the Pack have been leading so often in the 4th quarter. Or maybe he's had 10 chances and only won two, I don't know.

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Somebody did one somewhere and Rodgers' % to comeback when behind is pretty low in comparison to the other elite QBs and even some not elite Qbs.

SalemPats said:

I agree it's a mess. I do like the idea of MVP per position (i know we have all pro and offensive players), but maybe QB, OL, RB/WR/TE/FB on offense and D-Lineman/LB/Secondary MVPs would be cool. For MVP, how do you judge Watt vs Brady vs Rodgers vs Murray vs Gronk?

QB - Rodgers vs Brady. Both are deserving, i think Rodgers wins this based on his ridiculous stats
OL - That's a hard one, perhaps Peters on Philly
RB/WR/TE/FB - Gronk vs Murray. I give it to Gronk

DL - Watt
LB - Dumervil, Miller, etc... this is a tough one
Secondary - Revis vs Earl Thomas. I give it to Revis

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The thing is, Rodgers doesn't really have ridiculous stats. He's not leading in yards or TDs, he has something like a .6 lead in rating, and he doesn't have the best record. And that's among some fairly pedestrian performances by QBs this year. Rodgers is having what? The 50th best season ever for a QB maybe?

This year is a good litmus test for where the MVP award has gone. If they give it to the best of a bunch of pedestrian QBs over some players who are truly having all time great seasons then they might as well change the award to "the media's favorite QB award."

If Watt doesn't deserve to win if his team isn't in the playoffs, then Rodgers doesn't deserve to win if his team is the 6th seed in the NFC playoffs either.

By the way, why is Watt even considered?

He is an amazing talent, but he also plays on the 24th best defense in the NFL.

If we're considering defensively players this season, why is Justin Houston being talked about as a candidate? He shoulders a better defensive unit on a team that could still make the playoffs with equal stats to Watt's. Same with Dumervil for Baltimore.

Because Watt caught a couple TD's as a tight end though suddenly he's MVP?

Bobsyouruncle said:

The thing is, Rodgers doesn't really have ridiculous stats. He's not leading in yards or TDs, he has something like a .6 lead in rating, and he doesn't have the best record. And that's among some fairly pedestrian performances by QBs this year. Rodgers is having what? The 50th best season ever for a QB maybe?

This year is a good litmus test for where the MVP award has gone. If they give it to the best of a bunch of pedestrian QBs over some players who are truly having all time great seasons then they might as well change the award to "the media's favorite QB award."

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In my opinion Rodgers and Brady are clearly above the rest.

Too say that Rodgers has pedestrian numbers is insane. He has 35 TDs/5 Int and at home i don't think he's thrown a pick. I thought the game against us was one of the best performances i have seen by a QB ever. I'm actually kind of shocked by your response.

Brady will probably finished 3rd just like stupid pro bowl voting unless he puts up crazy numbers in the last two games. Watt winning mvp is like a pitcher winning it..?

TinhWoodhead said:

Brady will probably finished 3rd just like stupid pro bowl voting unless he puts up crazy numbers in the last two games. Watt winning mvp is like a pitcher winning it..?

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Pedro got screwed!

SalemPats said:

In my opinion Rodgers and Brady are clearly above the rest.

Too say that Rodgers has pedestrian numbers is insane. He has 35 TDs/5 Int and at home i don't think he's thrown a pick. I thought the game against us was one of the best performances i have seen by a QB ever. I'm actually kind of shocked by your response.

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Let me clarify. Rodgers is the best QB this year so far by a slim margin. But his season is not one for the ages. It's not even the best in the last year. Just a few years ago 3 QBs had over 40 TDs. In the last ten years Rodgers may have the 7-10th best season. Which is good, but why should he get the MVP over guys that are having a season for the ages?

He hasn't even gotten his team to lead their division, where often these great QB seasons lead to the best record in the league. If his stat line (or winning record) is an MVP stat line than it's essentially a QB award because every year we see QBs match or best his numbers. So every year a QB has "MVP numbers," and nobody else could possibly win.
Watt may be having one of the best seasons for a DT in 20 years. Gronk is having probably a top 5 season all time for a TE. Rodgers is merely having the best season for a QB this year. If he put up these numbers last year he wouldn't even get considered. Other players seasons would be great any year.

It's like saying a WR who leads the league with 1500 yards and 10 TDs is having an MVP year. Sure, but WRs do that nearly every year, and often even better so hardly deserving of an award that recognizes only one player as above the rest.

Unless it's just a QB award..

As I said in the previous thread, how can it be anyone but manning . And when people know it cant be him..they still worship him
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27167543/making-case-mvp

Bobsyouruncle said:

Let me clarify. Rodgers is the best QB this year so far by a slim margin. But his season is not one for the ages. It's not even the best in the last year. Just a few years ago 3 QBs had over 40 TDs. In the last ten years Rodgers may have the 7-10th best season. Which is good, but why should he get the MVP over guys that are having a season for the ages?

He hasn't even gotten his team to lead their division, where often these great QB seasons lead to the best record in the league. If his stat line (or winning record) is an MVP stat line than it's essentially a QB award because every year we see QBs match or best his numbers. So every year a QB has "MVP numbers," and nobody else could possibly win.
Watt may be having one of the best seasons for a DT in 20 years. Gronk is having probably a top 5 season all time for a TE. Rodgers is merely having the best season for a QB this year. If he put up these numbers last year he wouldn't even get considered. Other players seasons would be great any year.

It's like saying a WR who leads the league with 1500 yards and 10 TDs is having an MVP year. Sure, but WRs do that nearly every year, and often even better so hardly deserving of an award that recognizes only one player as above the rest.

Unless it's just a QB award..

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I'm not arguing that, his season is awesome, not the best ever. I agree about the award as i stated earlier it's pretty much a QB award. Saying that i have him in the league and he has played awesome this year behind a weak defense.

OK, this is pretty funny: