Bear's safety Conte thinks NFL worth the risk

BSR · Dec 17, 2014

Rob0729 said:
Yeah, but by the time you are 70/80 it won't be the crap your pants, not recognizing your family years. My father is 75 and he is pretty active and has no more dementia than he had when he was 40 (granted he has been insane my whole life so it is hard to tell). The 40 something generation will likely have active lives into their 80s and 90s.

And the thing is with all these violent hits the NFL players take, most of them don't avoid the crap your pants, not recognize your family years. Those years just come to them in their 40s and 50s, sometimes 30s. Ask guys like Kevin Turner and Wayne Chrebet if they would trade the football life for an extra 10-15 years of life.

I remember seeing Steve Young down in N'Orleans for the first Belichick/Brady Super Bowl and he was walking like a 90 year old man. I can only imagine what he looks like and what he is going through 15 years later.

The trade off for most NFL players isn't usually that they avoid having their bodies break down before they die, but they die younger. They die younger because their bodies break down sooner than the average person and they usually deal with a lot of medical issues the average person experiences in their senior years in their middle aged years.

There are no guarantees in life. Just because you choose to take the safe path does not mean that you are going to live a happy and healthy life into your nineties. The reality is that many of these people in their eighties and over don't have a lifestyle that anyone envies. I've seen it happen to my parents and it comes on quicker then you ever would think. There is also no assurances that people even younger won't come down with a wide assortment of medical issues from cancer, to heart attacks to diabetes and more.

I would never put of something I love to do just for the CHANCE that I MIGHT be healthier 40 to 50 years from now. There is just too much variability between now and then.

BSR · Dec 17, 2014

JackBauer said:
Most of the people I know who have come to swim in pools of money have found it to be far less than advertised. Give me basic health and quality of life every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Its far easier to maintain basic health and quality of life with pools of money. I'll just say that the people I know in that situation are enjoying life very well.

Rob0729 · Dec 17, 2014

BSR said:
There are no guarantees in life. Just because you choose to take the safe path does not mean that you are going to live a happy and healthy life into your nineties. The reality is that many of these people in their eighties and over don't have a lifestyle that anyone envies. I've seen it happen to my parents and it comes on quicker then you ever would think. There is also no assurances that people even younger won't come down with a wide assortment of medical issues from cancer, to heart attacks to diabetes and more.

I would never put of something I love to do just for the CHANCE that I MIGHT be healthier 40 to 50 years from now. There is just too much variability between now and then.

Of course there is no guarantees in life, but we are talking about one hypothetical. Many NFL players live long and healthy lives. But in this scenario, the player's life would be cut short by playing and the players who have their lives shortened because of the abuse they took in the NFL typically go through years of severe medical problems before they die.

If I was good enough to play in the NFL, I would have played in the NFL. If the trade off was losing 15 years of my life (it was guaranteed or likely I would lose that much time), I wouldn't. That could be the difference between seeing your kids growing up and becoming adults (graduating, getting married, having kids) and not. And I would rather have those experiences.

BSR · Dec 17, 2014

Rob0729 said:
Of course there is no guarantees in life, but we are talking about one hypothetical. Many NFL players live long and healthy lives. But in this scenario, the player's life would be cut short by playing and the players who have their lives shortened because of the abuse they took in the NFL typically go through years of severe medical problems before they die.

If I was good enough to play in the NFL, I would have played in the NFL. If the trade off was losing 15 years of my life (it was guaranteed or likely I would lose that much time), I wouldn't. That could be the difference between seeing your kids growing up and becoming adults (graduating, getting married, having kids) and not. And I would rather have those experiences.

That may be your choice and it is a perfectly valid one for you. Others see it differently and I can't fault them their choice either.

Oddly when I was younger my view was more like yours. As I grow older however I tend to look back on my life and savor more those times when I took the risk even though it was more dangerous. But that's just me.

borg · Dec 17, 2014

chasa said:
Compared to the average american 2.6 million dollars in 4 years is an INCREDIBLE amount of money

$2.6 mill====>>> Federal taxes, state taxes, local taxes, agent fees....whats left before spending on daily life....$1.2 mill??
Invest $1.2 mill in a safe investment...treasuries is the [email protected]%.......yearly income of $40-45k.......pools of money???

patfanken · Dec 17, 2014

God, I'm tired of hearing this crap about how football can cost year's off your life. First of all, is there any proof of it? There are an awful lot of old players walking around. Sure some died young and other have impairments that limit them, but so does every other demographic.

Being president can take years off your life, should we caution our children from aspiring to greatness. I guess that eliminates careers in the police, fire and military, not to mention dentistry and psychology, as they induce a high suicide rates. Of course we should stop eating most of what we eat. We should not drink most of what we drink, nor smoke, take drugs, pain pills, etc. Of course we shouldn't drive, because of the higher risk of accidents, or I guess anything else.

Playing in the NFL is gives the players such a tremendous life long advantage over those who don't. Not only the potential of making millions during their short careers, but in what it means to their potential financial success and happiness long after its over. PLUS such a large part of the risk that NFL players eventually risk NEVER come to bear in the Pop Warner and HS levels where more kids should be encouraged to play because of the life lessons that can be learned.

This kind of speculation (which was being discussed all over the radio today on ESPN, EEI, etc) only hurts the game we love and to my mind is spurious and unnecessary.

Rob0729 · Dec 17, 2014

patfanken said:
God, I'm tired of hearing this crap about how football can cost year's off your life. First of all, is there any proof of it? There are an awful lot of old players walking around. Sure some died young and other have impairments that limit them, but so does every other demographic.

Being president can take years off your life, should we caution our children from aspiring to greatness. I guess that eliminates careers in the police, fire and military, not to mention dentistry and psychology, as they induce a high suicide rates. Of course we should stop eating most of what we eat. We should not drink most of what we drink, nor smoke, take drugs, pain pills, etc. Of course we shouldn't drive, because of the higher risk of accidents, or I guess anything else.

Playing in the NFL is gives the players such a tremendous life long advantage over those who don't. Not only the potential of making millions during their short careers, but in what it means to their potential financial success and happiness long after its over. PLUS such a large part of the risk that NFL players eventually risk NEVER come to bear in the Pop Warner and HS levels where more kids should be encouraged to play because of the life lessons that can be learned.

This kind of speculation (which was being discussed all over the radio today on ESPN, EEI, etc) only hurts the game we love and to my mind is spurious and unnecessary.

I think there has been links to certain types of head injuries and shorten life spans and poorer quality of life, but I don't think it is the norm. Repeated concussions have been linked to things like ALS and Parkinson disease. So there is a risk.

For this thread, I am speaking of the hypothetical that by playing in the NFL is going to reduce your life span by 10-15 years. Not saying if you play in the NFL, you are going to have a shortened lifespan. It is a possibility though. But I can't speak for anyone else.

primetime · Dec 17, 2014

patfanken said:
God, I'm tired of hearing this crap about how football can cost year's off your life. First of all, is there any proof of it?

Yes.

"While U.S. life expectancy is 77.6 years, recent studies suggest the average for NFL players is 55, 52 for linemen." http://www.sptimes.com/2006/01/29/Sports/A_huge_problem.shtml

And morbidity sets in at a much higher rate as well.

"Retired NFL football players suffer from Alzheimer’s disease at a 37 per cent higher rate than average." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/sports/football/30dementia.html

And a significant amount of research on links between concussions and both acute and chronic mental illness was suppressed by the NFL as part of the settlement.

You can learn all the "life skills" you need in just about anything that doesn't carry with it a risk of brain injury.

The argument that people can make their own decisions is well and good, but those decisions should be made with the largest pool of available evidence. Unfortunately, a significant amount of evidence has been suppressed.

Mike the Brit · Dec 17, 2014

patfanken said:
First of all, is there any proof of it?

A good question, Ken -- one to which there are the beginnings of some answers.

The NFL commissioned a study from the NIOSH and they found that former NFL players had significantly lower rates of mortality than the general population.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pdfs/nflfactsheet.pdf

But, as has been pointed out, that doesn't mean that playing in the NFL is beneficial. NFL players are, after all, full-time professional athletes. You'd expect that to have health benefits compared with Joe the Plumber or Bill the Phone Salesman. So the proper comparison is with other athletes. But even here the comparison seems to work in favour of the NFL. Bill Barnwell did his own study comparing NFL players with baseball players and found that the NFL players had the lower mortality rates of the two. Personally, I'd have liked a comparison with something less riddled with PED abuse than baseball, but it's still striking.

http://grantland.com/features/comparing-mortality-rates-football-baseball/

Another study seems to put NFL mortality rates above MLB but still significantly below the general population (and, interestingly, below the NBA).

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/comparing-the-wwfs-death-rate-to-the-nfls-and-other-pro-leagues/

primetime · Dec 17, 2014

Mike the Brit said:
A good question, Ken -- one to which there are the beginnings of some answers.

The NFL commissioned a study from the NIOSH and they found that former NFL players had significantly lower rates of mortality than the general population.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pdfs/nflfactsheet.pdf

But, as has been pointed out, that doesn't mean that playing in the NFL is beneficial. NFL players are, after all, full-time professional athletes. You'd expect that to have health benefits compared with Joe the Plumber or Bill the Phone Salesman. So the proper comparison is with other athletes. But even here the comparison seems to work in favour of the NFL. Bill Barnwell did his own study comparing NFL players with baseball players and found that the NFL players had the lower mortality rates of the two. Personally, I'd have liked a comparison with something less riddled with PED abuse than baseball, but it's still striking.

http://grantland.com/features/comparing-mortality-rates-football-baseball/

Another study seems to put NFL mortality rates above MLB but still significantly below the general population (and, interestingly, below the NBA).

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/comparing-the-wwfs-death-rate-to-the-nfls-and-other-pro-leagues/

The study in the first report started in 1959 and ended in 1984; I'm not sure it has a ton of relevance to today, when the players are substantially larger and faster than they were.

http://thebiglead.com/2012/05/09/breaking-down-the-study-on-nfl-life-expectancy/

Ring 6 · Dec 17, 2014

borg said:
$2.6 mill====>>> Federal taxes, state taxes, local taxes, agent fees....whats left before spending on daily life....$1.2 mill??
Invest $1.2 mill in a safe investment...treasuries is the [email protected]%.......yearly income of $40-45k.......pools of money???

You also left out the fact that these guys live like they will make 600k a year for life, so that 1.2mill is a pipedream.
I heard this morning a study showed 78% of NFL players are bankrupt within 2(or 3?) years of leaving the NFL.

primetime · Dec 17, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
You also left out the fact that these guys live like they will make 600k a year for life, so that 1.2mill is a pipedream.
I heard this morning a study showed 78% of NFL players are bankrupt within 2(or 3?) years of leaving the NFL.

The NFL doesn't provide a lot of financial guidance outside of that rookie symposium, though to be fair, this is also an issue in the general population, and especially people in their 20s. The vast majority of people are poor at managing money, and the bewildering complexity of investment and private retirement savings doesn't help much.

My thing is that the amount of money they're making isn't really central to the issue. Players are being paid what they are based on the economic fact that they're an integral part of a trillion dollar business, and that NFL players differ from the majority of workers in that the difference between a Division 3 quarterback and Aaron Rodgers is a lot larger than the difference between the average worker and the best worker in their field. If anything, the owners' trampling over the NFLPA means the players don't get a large enough piece of the pie.

chasa · Dec 17, 2014

borg said:
$2.6 mill====>>> Federal taxes, state taxes, local taxes, agent fees....whats left before spending on daily life....$1.2 mill??
Invest $1.2 mill in a safe investment...treasuries is the [email protected]%.......yearly income of $40-45k.......pools of money???

I don't know what sort of work you do, but if someone was to give me 1.2 million dollars after 4 years of work id be thrilled. add on to that trainers, the highest level of medical help, and all of the other not money perks you get by playing the nfl.

primetime · Dec 17, 2014

chasa said:
I don't know what sort of work you do, but if someone was to give me 1.2 million dollars after 4 years of work id be thrilled. add on to that trainers, the highest level of medical help, and all of the other not money perks you get by playing the nfl.

I sincerely doubt any of the posters here are irreplaceable parts of a trillion dollar business, for one, but the issue also isn't about how much players are paid, which you seem to want to make it about.

The question is whether the benefits outweigh the risks, because all the money in the world won't help if you develop Alzheimer's at 40. And I think most of the posters here acknowledge that's a very difficult decision to make - both economically and personally - and what looks like a good decision to a young invincible at 22 may not look like a good one at 40. Finally, it's important to note, on top of that, that players still aren't making that momentous decision with the full spectrum of evidence in front of them, because it was locked in vaults by the NFL as part of the settlement.

JackBauer · Dec 17, 2014

BSR said:
Its far easier to maintain basic health and quality of life with pools of money. I'll just say that the people I know in that situation are enjoying life very well.

How many of them play or have played in the NFL?

BTTA · Dec 17, 2014

chasa said:
I don't know what sort of work you do, but if someone was to give me 1.2 million dollars after 4 years of work id be thrilled. add on to that trainers, the highest level of medical help, and all of the other not money perks you get by playing the nfl.

The problem is this: if you are a normal human being, at that point you will screw up the financial planning and management of that money, and won't have much of it left in a few years. History and experience have proven this. Also, you probably don't have a legitimate profession to lean into from which to start your next career. You might have a lot of friends, and capitalize on that through a job in sales, which a lot of these guys do, but even that eludes a lot of them.

BSR · Dec 17, 2014

JackBauer said:
How many of them play or have played in the NFL?

How many of the people you were referencing played in the NFL?

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