The Patriots vs Chargers POST Game Thread

NSPF said:

Yeah, honestly I don't see how anyone could have watched the last two games and not noticed how poor Solder's performance has been. I don't know what they want you to do, chart every individual play? And one decent half doesn't make up for three terrible ones...

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It's obvious, the poster in question did not watch the football games.

ATippett56 said:

Why don't you listen to Greg Bedard's review of the Green Bay Packers game instead of posting asinine questions.

Big picture, the New England Patriots offensive line allowed quarterback pressures on 35% of pass attempts against the Green Bay Packers defense. PATHETIC!

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See, this isn't getting us anywhere. I strongly disagree with your premise that Solder has been a significant detriment to the offense. To reconcile that difference in opinion, I asked for your thoughts on his body of work. You gave me your thoughts on one play and somebody else's thoughts on the body of work. That doesn't get me any closer to understanding why you think what you do.

I've watched Solder more than enough to make what I believe to be a reasonable assessment of his quality of play. So how can two people have two completely differing opinions? Help me understand this. Or if you have no intention of trying to explain why you don't think he's a good player, then just say that and save me the time.

Sciz said:

See, this isn't getting us anywhere. I strongly disagree with your premise that Solder has been a significant detriment to the offense. To reconcile that difference in opinion, I asked for your thoughts on his body of work. You gave me your thoughts on one play and somebody else's thoughts on the body of work. That doesn't get me any closer to understanding why you think what you do.

I've watched Solder more than enough to make what I believe to be a reasonable assessment of his quality of play. So how can two people have two completely differing opinions? Help me understand this. Or if you have no intention of trying to explain why you don't think he's a good player, then just say that and save me the time.

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It's quite obvious you either don't watch the football games or have some blind devotion to Nate Solder. Congratulations on your low set of standards.

Nate Solder, the past two games against the Green Bay Packers and San Diego Chargers, reverted back to his performance in the first four games of the season, which is unworthy of a future one year $7,438,000 contract not to mention downright pathetic. I expect a lot more from the former 17th overall pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, especially one in his fourth NFL Season.

The entire Offensive line has given up only 16 sacks,14 of Brady; 2 of Polo. That is as compared to 40 last season. How many of them were yielded by your hated "hot garbage" Nate Solder?

Meanwhile the team is the 2nd or 3rd rated offense in the League. It is easy to see that you don't know anything of which you speak.

Just Go back to your dream world mock drafts, where your hated Belichick and McDaniels are no longer part of the Patriots and cheap Kraft is free to skrimp some more. Why in your dream world he'll hire you to re-stock his club as the new GM.

Dream on sonny boy.

AzPatsFan said:

The entire Offensive line has given up only 16 sacks,14 of Brady; 2 of Polo. That is as compared to 40 last season. How many of them were yielded by your hated "hot garbage" Nate Solder?

Meanwhile the team is the 2nd or 3rd rated offense in the League. It is easy to see that you don't know anything of which you speak.

Just Go back to your dream world mock drafts, where your hated Belichick and McDaniels are no longer part of the Patriots and cheap Kraft is free to skrimp some more. Why in your dream world he'll hire you to re-stock his club as the new GM.

Dream on sonny boy.

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Continue to spew your garbage.

Your college football expertise is completely worthless as is your evaluation of the New England Patriots offensive line.

I agree that Solder was getting blown up and the pressure was coming in pretty hot, particularly in the first half. It actually made me wonder if he may have been injured or something. I thought he looked rather slow.

That said, he made some very nice second half adjustments or at least had a fire lit under his ass in the locker room at halftime, because he played the second half much, much better. He really held his own in the second half vs. Freeney.

While I don't think it's been nearly as bad as you're suggesting (Tippett), I won't act like I don't know where you're coming from either. Solder has yet to reach the "elite" status that we all hope for, and has even looked quite bad at times. Luckily, those times haven't been enough to make me feel as though it cannot be corrected, or that maybe sometimes the defensive player just wins his battles as well.

supafly said:

I agree that Solder was getting blown up and the pressure was coming in pretty hot, particularly in the first half. It actually made me wonder if he may have been injured or something. I thought he looked rather slow.

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As far as I know, Solder has yet to be listed on the injury report this year.

supafly said:

That said, he made some very nice second half adjustments or at least had a fire lit under his ass in the locker room at halftime, because he played the second half much, much better. He really held his own in the second half vs. Freeney.

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Huh?

The New England Patriots offense started the second half with four consecutive three-and-outs.

supafly said:

While I don't think it's been nearly as bad as you're suggesting (Tippett), I won't act like I don't know where you're coming from either. Solder has yet to reach the "elite" status that we all hope for, and has even looked quite bad at times. Luckily, those times haven't been enough to make me feel as though it cannot be corrected, or that maybe sometimes the defensive player just wins his battles as well.

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I will not even try to sugar coat Solder's performance the last two games let alone the first four games. Tom Brady deserves better performance from the New England Patriots offensive line and that begins with the only first round draft pick on the offensive line.

By the way, Nate Solder is the second highest drafted player, originally drafted by the New England Patriots, currently on the New England Patriots roster. The standard by which the aforementioned fourth year first round draft pick performs should be at least equal to the career of Vince Wilfork, originally selected 21st in the 2004 NFL Draft, who by the way in his fourth season was not only selected to the Pro Bowl but named Second Team All-Pro by the AP.

Archeryaddict12 said:

He was for the first half. Almost flawless the second half. Solder and Connolly (I think) was gettin owned but solder improved greatly over he game. Hopefully he can continue.

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He was far from flawless in the second half. He was pretty 50-50 with 50% good snaps and 50% bad snaps. He had a very good block on Blounts 23 yard run in the 4th Q, but then a couple of bad blocks that in themself ruined running plays because he let his defender take down the ball carrier before the LOS. On passing plays he had a couple of good blocks where he got the pass rusher away from the pocket. But he was also pushed back quickly into Brady a few times and embarassed by a spin move. He improved in the second half.

I think Solder's struggles have been pretty apparent. So much so that Bruschi, who might know a little about OL play, seemed to suggest he could be the team's achille's heel right now:

The Chargers played well last night defensively. They exposed some problems that the Patriots have had all year -- specifically at the offensive tackle position (Melvin Ingram on Nate Solder), and also lining up a quality pass-rusher inside over the guards (similar to what Chiefs OLB Justin Houston did in Week 4).
Even watching the game last night, I said to myself, "If your left tackle can't hold up, it can be a season ender." Solder has to play better the rest of the way.
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/page/bruschiontap-1208/new-england-defense-shows-built-win

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That said, Connolly and Stork also had bad break downs. As a unit, in San Diego and Green Bay they simply lost too many one on one battles. There are good DL challenges ahead in Miami, Buffalo and the Jets. It will be interesting to see if they can find some improvement up front, both in protection and opening some running lanes.

Fair play Ryan Wendell...from a guy who loads thought was getting cut, we never seem to see him getting beat!

Am I the only one who thinks the Chargers DL and in particular Ingram were getting some of their pressures as the result of hands to the face?

Ingram got Solder two or three times where there was no question that it should have been flagged.

JMC00 said:

Am I the only one who thinks the Chargers DL and in particular Ingram were getting some of their pressures as the result of hands to the face?

Ingram got Solder two or three times where there was no question that it should have been flagged.

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Goes both ways. On Edelman's TD, Solder grabbed himself a handful of face mask that was not called (go to 48 sec mark).
https://twitter.com/nfl/status/541859843871485953

Mack Herron said:

Goes both ways. On Edelman's TD, Solder grabbed himself a handful of face mask that was not called (go to 48 sec mark).
https://twitter.com/nfl/status/541859843871485953

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Ingram's were a lot more egregious than that. Solder's was more incidental because Ingram is coming in with his head lowered and Solder is trying to get hands on him. Ingram was coming in with hard shots straight to Solder's face.

50-yard-line said:

Because it was an incomplete FORWARD pass.

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I think a lateral in the NFL used to be any ball thrown underhanded in any direction. It's possible that they decided that it was too difficult for the refs to determine exactly when the ball was being thrown underhanded, so they went with the direction the ball travels as the determining factor. I'm having some trouble finding anything about it, but I'll keep plugging along.

ATippett56 said:

As far as I know, Solder has yet to be listed on the injury report this year.

Huh?

The New England Patriots offense started the second half with four consecutive three-and-outs.

I will not even try to sugar coat Solder's performance the last two games let alone the first four games. Tom Brady deserves better performance from the New England Patriots offensive line and that begins with the only first round draft pick on the offensive line.

By the way, Nate Solder is the second highest drafted player, originally drafted by the New England Patriots, currently on the New England Patriots roster. The standard by which the aforementioned fourth year first round draft pick performs should be at least equal to the career of Vince Wilfork, originally selected 21st in the 2004 NFL Draft, who by the way in his fourth season was not only selected to the Pro Bowl but named Second Team All-Pro by the AP.

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Look, I'll be the first to agree with you that Solder has not been what we expected when we drafted him and that people here tend to overrate his performance. I'll agree with you that he looked awful in the first half of the Charger game. That said, you blaming him for the offense sputtering to start the second half doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Patriots at 15:00 said:

1st and 10 at NE 19(14:55) T.Brady pass short middle to L.Blount to NE 19 for no gain (K.Conner) [S.Lissemore].
2nd and 10 at NE 19(14:15) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to R.Gronkowski to NE 28 for 9 yards (E.Weddle, J.Johnson).
3rd and 1 at NE 28(13:35) L.Blount up the middle to NE 27 for -1 yards (J.Johnson, E.Weddle).
4th and 2 at NE 27(12:53) R.Allen punts 60 yards to SD 13, Center-D.Aiken, downed by NE-B.Tyms.

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This drive did not stall because of Solder.

Patriots at 11:33 said:

1st and 10 at NE 48(11:33) T.Brady pass incomplete short left to B.LaFell [C.Liuget].1314
2nd and 10 at NE 48(11:27) L.Blount left tackle to SD 48 for 4 yards (Ric. Mathews, J.Addae).
3rd and 6 at SD 48(10:39) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to T.Wright (J.Attaochu).
4th and 6 at SD 48(10:35) R.Allen punts 38 yards to SD 10, Center-D.Aiken, fair catch by K.Allen.

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This drive did not stall because of Solder.

Patriots at 8:21 said:

1st and 10 at NE 44(8:21) PENALTY on NE-D.Connolly, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NE 44 - No Play.1314
1st and 15 at NE 39(8:21) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to R.Gronkowski to NE 33 for -6 yards (A.Gachkar, M.Gilchrist).
2nd and 21 at NE 33(7:40) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to S.Vereen to NE 40 for 7 yards (A.Gachkar).
3rd and 14 at NE 40(7:01) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short left to B.LaFell (S.Wright).
4th and 14 at NE 40(6:55) R.Allen punts 49 yards to SD 11, Center-D.Aiken. K.Allen to SD 18 for 7 yards (T.Wilson). PENALTY on NE-B.Tyms, Unsportsmanlike Conduct, 15 yards, enforced at SD 18.

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This drive did not stall because of Solder.

Patriots at 4:43 said:

1st and 10 at NE 30(4:43) L.Blount left end to NE 28 for -2 yards (M.Te'o, C.Liuget).1314
2nd and 12 at NE 28(4:02) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to R.Gronkowski to NE 34 for 6 yards (B.Flowers, J.Johnson).
3rd and 6 at NE 34(3:24) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to R.Gronkowski.
4th and 6 at NE 34(3:19) R.Allen punts 56 yards to SD 10, Center-D.Aiken. K.Allen to SD 10 for no gain (B.Tyms).

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This drive did not stall because of Solder.

You may want to take a deep breath and collect yourself. There's plenty of Solder's body of work to pick apart without making things up.

DaBruinz said:

I don't care if it is Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Bruce Armstrong or John Hannah. If you're an O-lineman having your head jacked back the way that Ingram/Freeney were jacking Solder's head back, it's going to look like your playing like crap.. There is a reason they made it a point of emphasis (sic) prior to the start of the season..

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Apparently SD didn't get the point.

- I see a day in the future when NFL players will be taking dives on plays. Like soccer.
- I think the refs have figured out that they can erase a bogus call (if they want) by having a meeting and declaring that a different violation didn't occur, so they can pick up the flag.
- By passing on 2nd and short and failing, it forces the Pats to pass on 3rd down too.
- I like Browner and his aggressiveness, but he really needs to tone it down. He could kill us in the playoffs with one of those avoidable hard hit penalties. Just aim a little lower kid.
- The pump fake almost always works.
- Gronk hardly noticed the cheap shot in the back that he took on his TD.
- Is it possible that Brady is working around an injury? He doesn't look like himself lately.
- DA scares me on punts.
- Why do we pass the ball on 1st down with a 9 point lead and 4 minutes left in the game? Run the damn ball.
- The Pats have become more physical. good.
- DeFENSE!
- Edelman has great awareness of where the open spaces are. His TD was only one of many examples. Hard to believe that nobody wanted him in FA.
- I wonder if SD's DL will be allowed to use the same aggressive tactics against Denver and not be called for penalties. My guess is they won't.
- I can't believe how personal some people get on these boards. It's only a game fellas.

Brady's interception...

TBR said:

Brady's interception...

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It was bad execution by Tom but not a bad decision. Gronk was open. Pressure forced the early throw. People do not understand context

Archeryaddict12 said:

It was bad execution by Tom but not a bad decision. Gronk was open. Pressure forced the early throw. People do not understand context

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It can be both. In that area with the game that close, you have to KNOW you can get it over Teo's head. If you don't KNOW, you have tuck it or throw it away. If it was the end of the fourth and we were down by a touchdown, sure, you take the chance. Just before halftime when a field goal takes the lead? Gotta be smarter than that, execution aside.