Finally someone in the media is starting to ask if Manning is declining

Patradomous said:

Yeah well you name me one worse that the one in Indy before the half, in his career. the only one I can think of like that was the champ Bailey pick in Denver in 05 in the playoffs.
Last nights pick was inexcusable too. He had Amendola underneath all by himself on that play., not the first time either. I still cant figure what thats all about.
And if you want to be honest, Edleman saved his ass on the TD going up and a little behind to make a good snag that could have gotten him crushed if there was a defender heading toward him.
Now that I'm thinking about it Edleman would have caught that ball Welker dropped in the SB a few years ago.

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That had nothing to do with any sort of physical decline in skills, it had to do with making a very bad decision. Believe it or not, he's not, nor has he ever been, immune from making the occasional bad decision.

The throw to Edelman last night was /exactly/ where the want that throw to be. Listen to BB. "He made a good high throw to Julian". And no, having seen it a bunch of times, it wasn't remotely 'behind' him. To compare it to the throw in the SB is ludicrous.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I know I'm inherently a Brady's Lady apologist but my observations say that Brady's worst decisions & throws (but clearly not all) are a function of intense defensive pressure. We have to admit that defenses succeed in bringing tougher pressure against Brady than against Manning. That said it's obvious that Brady has made some bonehead decisions regardless of pressure.

Manning's decline is over rated here. He still throws a looping long ball with unequaled accuracy dropping the pass into a tiny moving target. Brady has never done this as well as Manning did and still does. Where Peyton is declining is on the shorter passes where straight line bullets are required. Brady was and is superior in this respect. Manning is still a Top 5 QB. He may well not be next year. Impossible to predict.

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well said

i completely agree on their different passing strengths and weaknesses

i dont mind blaming solder, etc. when they get beat quickly and that messes brady up on a given play

but it kills me when we make excuses for brady for bad throws/decisions later in the game on plays that he had time.....and say, "Well, the OL was getting beat earlier and brady was getting hit.....so its not his fault that he's off now."

if he can't keep his composure on subsequent plays after being hit, then he is missing a big part of being a great QB

another thing......i want to see him get fired up after taking a big hit sometimes.....instead of just after TD passes

kind of like Favre used to......gets hit by some 300 lb dude....."is that all you got?, i thought you could hit harder than that ".........Luck has a little of that in him

Rob0729 said:

BTW, I am sure Broncos fans will rebuff this and say "Look at Brady. He played like crap in September". But that was because the Pats had major issues with the o-line and he was still getting to know guys like LaFell and Tim Wright. I know Julius Thomas is out, but the rest of the Broncos offense is fine.

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After watching the third quarter of the New England Patriots - San Diego Chargers game, the New England Patriots still have major issues with the offensive line. Four three-and-outs in a row for the New England Patriots offense. Pathetic.

james87654 said:

well said

i completely agree on their different passing strengths and weaknesses

i dont mind blaming solder, etc. when they get beat quickly and that messes brady up on a given play

but it kills me when we make excuses for brady for bad throws/decisions later in the game on plays that he had time.....and say, "Well, the OL was getting beat earlier and brady was getting hit.....so its not his fault that he's off now."

if he can't keep his composure on subsequent plays after being hit, then he is missing a big part of being a great QB

another thing......i want to see him get fired up after taking a big hit sometimes.....instead of just after TD passes

kind of like Favre used to......gets hit by some 300 lb dude....."is that all you got?, i thought you could hit harder than that ".........Luck has a little of that in him

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I hate all this. I'm also a platinum member of the "Boo Hoo Brady Crew."

ATippett56 said:

After watching the third quarter of the New England Patriots - San Diego Chargers game, the New England Patriots still have major issues with the offensive line. Four three-and-outs in a row for the New England Patriots offense. Pathetic.

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What does this have to do with anything I said or anything with the subject of Manning? If you are just looking to stir crap up or start a biatch session in every thread, I ain't interested.

ATippett56 said:

After watching the third quarter of the New England Patriots - San Diego Chargers game, the New England Patriots still have major issues with the offensive line. Four three-and-outs in a row for the New England Patriots offense. Pathetic.

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Do you EVER have anything positive to say?

james87654 said:

well said

i completely agree on their different passing strengths and weaknesses

i dont mind blaming solder, etc. when they get beat quickly and that messes brady up on a given play

but it kills me when we make excuses for brady for bad throws/decisions later in the game on plays that he had time.....and say, "Well, the OL was getting beat earlier and brady was getting hit.....so its not his fault that he's off now."

if he can't keep his composure on subsequent plays after being hit, then he is missing a big part of being a great QB

another thing......i want to see him get fired up after taking a big hit sometimes.....instead of just after TD passes

kind of like Favre used to......gets hit by some 300 lb dude....."is that all you got?, i thought you could hit harder than that ".........Luck has a little of that in him

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Not sure why you'd bring up Favre, pretty much the definition of the anti-big game QB.

cavtroop said:

Do you EVER have anything positive to say?

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Really what is there positive to talk about? The Pats are only 10-3, control their own destiny for HFA, and just finished a stretch of games that may have been the hardest stretch for any team this year with a 5-1 record. What is good about that?

Patradomous said:

You cant remember worse throws because there haven't been any. Thank you for making my point.
And there haven't been many bad throws like that over his career. And I'm sure there are some that I cant remember too.
My point was they do happen but they seem to happen with more frequency and on the road..

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So you're contention is that out of 8,032 passes and 163 INT's Brady has thrown (incl. playoffs) he has never thrown a pass worse than that one?

Sounds like a very reasoned and well thought out conclusion.

cavtroop said:

Do you EVER have anything positive to say?

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Tom Brady is the best. Tom Brady deserves a better offensive line.

Players like Brady and Manning deserve at least a season's worth of poor play before getting serious doubt IMO.

Given his stellar career I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps injury.

Why are people questioning Brady's toughness in a topic about Mannings play recently? Brady is the toughest QB in the league and opposing players who've hit him have said so themselves

robertweathers said:

This team does need a legit deep threat. SD crowded the middle of the field last night b/c they knew the Pats did not have the ability to burn them over the top.

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Ridiculous.

The New England Patriots offensive line does not allow time for a deep route to develop.

New England Pride said:

I hate all this. I'm also a platinum member of the "Boo Hoo Brady Crew."

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i find your honesty appealing

ArchAngel007 said:

Why are people questioning Brady's toughness in a topic about Mannings play recently? Brady is the toughest QB in the league and opposing players who've hit him have said so themselves

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He has to be, when considering the OL behind which he plays.

ATippett56 said:

Ridiculous.

The New England Patriots offensive line does not allow time for a deep route to develop.

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I don't see how this criticism of the o-line is untrue. Granted we've played against a TON of GREAT D-lines and pass rushers this year, but the pass protection is maddeningly inconsistent. I fear every time we run a play equivalent to a 5 to 7 step drop. We play small ball and play-action to mask this deficiency, but make no mistake, this is an issue that could cost us a SB again.

ATippett56 said:

After watching the third quarter of the New England Patriots - San Diego Chargers game, the New England Patriots still have major issues with the offensive line. Four three-and-outs in a row for the New England Patriots offense. Pathetic.

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AT, I don't entirely disagree with the conclusion that the Patriots still have some tightening up of their game to do. However, why do you think the OL is worthy of being singled out? Solder got owned a couple of time s but by and large the pass protection was fair. Sure, yesterday (at SD) we saw some OL breakdowns (I thought the run block breakdowns were their most questionable part). Yet we also saw Brady miss on some passes (where he had time) as well as receivers not reading the coverage/situation right--running to the wrong spot(seemingly). To top it off we have an OC who is IMHO not properly favoring the power running game.
I think the dampened offense is a combination of things. I think a simple syncing of the offense (that starts with BB/JM on down) will do wonders (a stronger level of commitment to the power run game is a good start).

One last item: The Patriots just got done with a tough stretch of games, one where everyone was a marquee match up, where every opponent saw the Patriot game as one to throw every ounce of fight they could possibly muster, where the last two games were in time zone change road locations (the players were on the road for 8 days). This item is little mentioned but potentially a tangible effect on how the Patriots' might have played. With the Patriots back home and that meat grinder (where every game was a top level fight) of a schedule done, let's see if it restarts the Patriots offensive excellence.

The Boston Patriot said:

I still think he can throw a better deep ball than Brady can (and to better receivers).

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in his older d

The Boston Patriot said:

I still think he can throw a better deep ball than Brady can (and to better receivers).

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he throws ducks,as far as deep balls he doesn't have the arm strength anymore.

Rob0729 said:

Brady is certainly better from 10-20 yards than Manning right now.

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Brady is better from that 8-15 yard range than any qb in history. That's his wheelhouse and no one has ever had the combination of release/accuracy and power that he has had in that center field area. Perhaps only Marino is comparable.

Further out, Manning has a bit more touch/timing on deep balls but its certainly close and the loss of his arm strength makes things pretty bleak.

About Manning, i found this amusing post in Walter Football's Power Ranking. here it is:

Denver Broncos (10-3) - Previously: #3 - No one wants to say anything negative about Peyton Manning. Seriously, no one. The following exchange actually took place on GameDay Final on NFL Network:

Michael Irvin: No one wants to talk about what's going on with Peyton, and I... don't want to say anything about that.

Host: You can say whatever you want!

Michael Irvin: No, that's OK.

Crazy. People are actually terrified of offending Prince Peyton. I don't get it. What's he going to do, ban analysts from co-starring in all of his cool commercials? Use telekinesis to make them jump off a building? I don't get it.

Here's what no one on ESPN or NFL Network will say: Manning has sucked the past two weeks. He went 4-of-14 for 43 yards in the second half versus Kansas City, and then tossed two picks that were ugly ducks against the Bills. The Broncos still should have covered, but ugh...

The full link, just in case http://walterfootball.com/nflpowerrankings.php