Browner's penalty negating McCourty TD

Ring 6 · Dec 8, 2014

All this said, Browner has been a GREAT player for us this year. Penalties by being aggressive are fine with me, because that aggressiveness pays itself back in many time the benefits.

IllegalContact · Dec 8, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
What wasn't demonstrated? The exact rule was posted in this thread.

Neck area is in the rule. Define that however you wish, but I find it hard to accept that 'neck area' would not include the body part that is directly adjacent to it.
You have to either decide that for some reason they wrote neck area to only mean the neck, or that they meant to include what is connected to the neck, which is where the hit was.
Again, I hate the rule, but it is the rule.

shoulder to shoulder hit is not illegal

Ring 6 · Dec 8, 2014

IllegalContact said:
shoulder to shoulder hit is not illegal

The rule says neck area.
How would you define neck area to not include the shoulder?

Ring 6 · Dec 8, 2014

IllegalContact said:
shoulder to shoulder hit is not illegal

I thought that today before someone showed me the rule to show me that in this case it actually is.

Ring 6 · Dec 8, 2014

IllegalContact said:
so the conclusion is that it was the wrong call

whatever that means...next thing you know, pass catchers will learn to bobble the ball all the way down the field to be deemed 'defenseless' not the defenders fault he could not secure the ball in a timely manner

bad call ... case closed

Case closed? Really are we playing that game?

Helmet to helmet was a bad call, but by the rules (which I disagree with by the way) it was a penalty.

Appealing to a silly example doesn't make your case. The rule is what it is and arguing it can't be because it is unfair to defenders is laughable because the NFL stopped worrying about what is fair to defenders a long time ago.

50-yard-line · Dec 8, 2014

Okay, for the folks who are saying it definitely was or wasn't a penalty, watch this (someone computer-smart can embed):

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos...ers-concussion-nasty-hit-rodney-mcleod/30903/

This was NOT called a penalty, and the NFL guy said it SHOULDN'T have been called a penalty. how do you make a distinction? How does a ref on the field make a distinction? in short, they don't - and the arbitrariness of the refereeing is ruining the game. Bad enough when it was "you can call holding on every down!" but now these are game-changers on PI, Roughing the Passer, hitting a receiver, etc.

Oswlek · Dec 8, 2014

SalemPats said:
The penalties targeting the head worked.

Excellent point. The NFL has gotten exactly what it wanted. Guys are going lower, they aren't leading with the helmet... and it's still not enough apparently.

Fencer · Dec 8, 2014

vyrago said:
Isn't that why replay would be crucial here?

I agree.

Fencer · Dec 8, 2014

stevedogc said:
How about big Vince hauling ass downfield trying to get McCourty into the endzone on the first GIF. Gotta say I was completely wrong on #75. Thought he was done but he seems to be getting better and better each week. Great season for Vince.

I thought I noticed that too, but didn't go back and confirm.

Yeah, Vince is still a great player (and leader-by-example).

PatriotSeven · Dec 8, 2014

English Patriot said:

Call was ********, great hit and interception but.....holy **** at Vince Wilfork's speed running those chargers down!

Fencer · Dec 8, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
I agree it was a clean hit.
I agree the rules say it was a penalty.

I hold almost exactly the opposite view. I think certain angles on the replay show clearly that it was a legal hit under the rules, by a few inches. But given how Green's head was whipped by the hit, I could be OK with a rule change making such hits illegal.

Big-T · Dec 8, 2014

Looking at that gif, there's no flag in view at all so it must have been thrown very late.

IllegalContact · Dec 8, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
I thought that today before someone showed me the rule to show me that in this case it actually is.

because it's the shoulder area?

otherwise, every shoulder to shoulder hit is illegal and we know that is not true

Ring 6 · Dec 8, 2014

Fencer said:
I hold almost exactly the opposite view. I think certain angles on the replay show clearly that it was a legal hit under the rules, by a few inches. But given how Green's head was whipped by the hit, I could be OK with a rule change making such hits illegal.

The rules current say the hit is illegal, unless you consider a few inches from the head to not be the 'neck area' which would be hard to argue.
It's football, its a game about hitting hard.

Ring 6 · Dec 8, 2014

IllegalContact said:
because it's the shoulder area?

otherwise, every shoulder to shoulder hit is illegal and we know that is not true

No. Only shoulder to shoulder, or neck area, hits on DEFENSELESS players.

Ring 6 · Dec 8, 2014

50-yard-line said:
Okay, for the folks who are saying it definitely was or wasn't a penalty, watch this (someone computer-smart can embed):

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos...ers-concussion-nasty-hit-rodney-mcleod/30903/

This was NOT called a penalty, and the NFL guy said it SHOULDN'T have been called a penalty. how do you make a distinction? How does a ref on the field make a distinction? in short, they don't - and the arbitrariness of the refereeing is ruining the game. Bad enough when it was "you can call holding on every down!" but now these are game-changers on PI, Roughing the Passer, hitting a receiver, etc.

I'm pretty certain that WAS called a penalty.

IllegalContact · Dec 8, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
No. Only shoulder to shoulder, or neck area, hits on DEFENSELESS players.

he wasn't DEFENSELESS.....and shoulder to shoulder hits are legal.

bad call ..... case closed

Kontradiction · Dec 8, 2014

Big-T said:
Looking at that gif, there's no flag in view at all so it must have been thrown very late.

It was. The official reacted to the aftermath of the hit and not the actual play itself. They were panning this on Sirius this morning when they were discussing how disgusting the call was.

IllegalContact · Dec 8, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
I'm pretty certain that WAS called a penalty.

bad call .... case closed

Ring 6 · Dec 8, 2014

50-yard-line said:
Okay, for the folks who are saying it definitely was or wasn't a penalty, watch this (someone computer-smart can embed):

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos...ers-concussion-nasty-hit-rodney-mcleod/30903/

This was NOT called a penalty, and the NFL guy said it SHOULDN'T have been called a penalty. how do you make a distinction? How does a ref on the field make a distinction? in short, they don't - and the arbitrariness of the refereeing is ruining the game. Bad enough when it was "you can call holding on every down!" but now these are game-changers on PI, Roughing the Passer, hitting a receiver, etc.

Whats the solution? There have to be judgment calls.

Browner's penalty negating McCourty TD

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