Anyone Wanna See What "All-In" Looks Like?

patchick said:

That's the one I go back and forth on. The Giants did win it all with Eli, but in a stumbling way with absolutely no consistency to their success. You have to wonder whether they wouldn't have actually won more with Rivers + Merriman +Kaeding.

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An interesting question for sure. If nothing else, Manning has benefit from better head coaching than Rivers ever has. Swap those two QB's and you might see the same exact successes between the two teams.

patfanken said:

What Jeff Fisher did by naming the players he got in the RGIII trade captains for the Washington game just confirms that despite being a decent but over rated HC, he is also one of the biggest scumbag bullies in the NFL. A HC who I can't wish anything good for. He's a man who enjoyed watching other players get hurt and taught his own players how to hurt them.

There was no reason to kick Washington, their HC, and RGIII while they are down. Its not like they have yet to have a winning season yet with the Rams, despite all those picks and a supposed franchise QB.

To repeat: Jeff Fisher - scum bag, D bag, bully, and over rated HC who has had more bad years than good ones. JMHO

As to the OP, its perfectly correct. Trading a lot of picks for a player rarely works out. Think about the Falcons and Julio Jones. Jones is every bit the player the Falcons hoped he'd be, and the deal could STILL be easily argued as the point when the Falcons began to go downhill. I'd bet the farm that Dimitriov wishes now that he'd listened to BB's advise and I'd bet another farm that he won't make that same mistake again

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Bully? Are you kidding me?
I'm no Jeff Fisher fan, in fact I have been saying lately this years Rams are the true example of a Fisher team, look great as soon as they are out of it.
But, my God, how can you not see the value for a coach to take 6 players who were traded for 1, and highlight that in the game against him? "Look guys, the Redskins thought that one guy was more valuable that all of you" BB would do the same thing. He may not send them out for the coin toss (who really cares) but he would be talking up that angle all week.
Kicking them when they are down? Really? If it bothered them that much, then thats the reason he should do it. Competitive advantage, very Art of War-like, very BB-like.
There are many reasons to rail on Fisher, but this isn't one of them, unless we want to just stop playing football and give points for politeness, political correctness, and apologizing and helping the other guy up if you mistakenly should knock him to the ground. Of course, a public apology may then be necessary, because you may have hurt his feelings too.

mayoclinic said:

Fran Tarkenton on RGIII;


http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/05/nfl-fran-tarkenton-adrian-peterson-ray-rice-robert-griffin-iii-rg3/

That's what Washington got for those 6 players.

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What's Ironic both teams are still relatively in the same spot they were in when they made those trades.

At least Washington made the playoffs.

I know that St. Louis has a really talented bunch of guys.. but they have NO QB still!

yopats said:

What's Ironic both teams are still relatively in the same spot they were in when they made those trades.

At least Washington made the playoffs.

I know that St. Louis has a really talented bunch of guys.. but they have NO QB still!

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Agreed, its pretty embarrassing to stick out your tongue at an opponent when your own team hasn't posted a winning record in over a decade.

"Nyah, nyah, we won the trade! So we're losing better than you!"

Sicilian said:

An interesting question for sure. If nothing else, Manning has benefit from better head coaching than Rivers ever has. Swap those two QB's and you might see the same exact successes between the two teams.

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Idk if id go that far...Eli is definitely the worse QB but he's had some whacky luck Rivers has never had. Shame Rivers wasted like 6 years of his career with Norv Turner. I bet a story comes out later explaining how he wasnt fired after like 3 years. Most people would have fired him after 2010. Everyone but the Chargers would have fired him after 2011.

Froob said:

Idk if id go that far...Eli is definitely the worse QB but he's had some whacky luck Rivers has never had. Shame Rivers wasted like 6 years of his career with Norv Turner. I bet a story comes out later explaining how he wasnt fired after like 3 years. Most people would have fired him after 2010. Everyone but the Chargers would have fired him after 2011.

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Well that's the point, is that the coaching has been better for Eli, so it's hard to say what would have happened with Rivers instead. It's at least fair to say that's not a cut and dry victory for the trade-up proponents, especially since it was only a few spots trading up (not like the huge movement for RGIII).

Sicilian said:

Well that's the point, is that the coaching has been better for Eli, so it's hard to say what would have happened with Rivers instead. It's at least fair to say that's not a cut and dry victory for the trade-up proponents, especially since it was only a few spots trading up (not like the huge movement for RGIII).

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I'm not sure if Coughlin is even a good coach. His teams suck so much when they don't have those fluke SB runs. I really hope he gets canned to put an end to this ****. Next year would be their next run...

that was awesome what st louis did yesterday..F the skins

yopats said:

What's Ironic both teams are still relatively in the same spot they were in when they made those trades.

At least Washington made the playoffs.

I know that St. Louis has a really talented bunch of guys.. but they have NO QB still!

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Exactly, I learned that you mock someone when you are doing much better so you are in position to criticize someone. Rams are in the top of the draft season after season and they are a dumpster fire.

AndyJohnson said:

Bully? Are you kidding me?
I'm no Jeff Fisher fan, in fact I have been saying lately this years Rams are the true example of a Fisher team, look great as soon as they are out of it.
But, my God, how can you not see the value for a coach to take 6 players who were traded for 1, and highlight that in the game against him? "Look guys, the Redskins thought that one guy was more valuable that all of you" BB would do the same thing. He may not send them out for the coin toss (who really cares) but he would be talking up that angle all week.
Kicking them when they are down? Really? If it bothered them that much, then thats the reason he should do it. Competitive advantage, very Art of War-like, very BB-like.
There are many reasons to rail on Fisher, but this isn't one of them, unless we want to just stop playing football and give points for politeness, political correctness, and apologizing and helping the other guy up if you mistakenly should knock him to the ground. Of course, a public apology may then be necessary, because you may have hurt his feelings too.

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You've swung and missed my point (or I failed to articulate it well enough). This has nothing to do with the trade itself. Clearly it was a home run for the Rams. It would have been for any team. BTW- if credit is going to be given for that trade it should go to Les Snead the GM, not the scumbag HC.

You aren't much on better footing with your "art of war" metaphor. I don't know if it bothered Washington. I do know that it bothered ME, and I don't believe in a 100 years BB would pull off such a classless chicken **** maneuver to embarrass a fellow coach and other players.

No AJ, this is who Fisher is and always has been. He's had SOME success as a HC, but not enough that he can pull off this kind of classless crap and get away with it. Like I said, he's had just as many bad years as respectable ones. and very few good ones. He also used his position on the rules committee to make himself into a more important "player" than he was. He was part of Polian's cliche that has set the game on the damaging path its on now.

But then again, this is just my opinion of Fisher, no one else is required to agree

ForThoseAboutToRock said:

Could you elaborate? I clearly blanked this out.

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Does the name Bobby Wade ring a bell?

I'm of the two minds camp on this one as well. It's clever, all right. And the fact that the target was the even more unlikable Dan Snyder is a mitigating factor as well. Having said that, it's still an incredibly douchy and juvenile move that is so typical of Jeff Fisher. He was an insufferable ahole after Spy(Camera!)gate and I'm sure Tom, Bill and everyone else on the Pats (as I did as well) thoroughly enjoyed every minute of the 59-0 pasting we did to the Titans in '09.

Oswlek said:

Does the name Bobby Wade ring a bell?

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ugh. Thanks? dislike.

yopats said:

What's Ironic both teams are still relatively in the same spot they were in when they made those trades.

At least Washington made the playoffs.

I know that St. Louis has a really talented bunch of guys.. but they have NO QB still!

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And if they kept the pick and chose Griffin, they wouldn't have all of those players and they still would no NO QB.
At least now they are a QB away from being pretty damn good, instead of a whole team away.

And they are not at all in the same spot they were. Before the trade they had gone 2-14 and had won 15 games in FIVE years. Yup 15-65, possibly the worst 5 years run in NFL history.
since they have been a bit below average 7-8-1. 7-9, 6-7 and are clearly better today than they have been since 2003.
They have gone 5-3 in their last 8 games, with blowout wins the last 2 weeks and wins over Seattle, SF and Denver as well.
The year before the trade: 193 points scored 405 points allowed. 35th worst point differential in NFL history (oh and that was 2011, and in 2009 the Rams had the 4th worst point differential in NFL history)
This year 285/285.

*cough*

Sam Bradford

*cough* *cough*

patfanken said:

You've swung and missed my point (or I failed to articulate it well enough). This has nothing to do with the trade itself. Clearly it was a home run for the Rams. It would have been for any team. BTW- if credit is going to be given for that trade it should go to Les Snead the GM, not the scumbag HC.

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I was giving him credit for the trade, i was giving him credit to use the fact that a number of his players were traded for one guy who turned out to be a slug as a motivation for his team.

You aren't much on better footing with your "art of war" metaphor. I don't know if it bothered Washington. I do know that it bothered ME, and I don't believe in a 100 years BB would pull off such a classless chicken **** maneuver to embarrass a fellow coach and other players.

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I used the idea that it bothered them because you implied that it did by saying he was kicking them when they were down. If they didn't care then you have no point, because you called the move an embarassment to the Redskins, so if they don't care, its irrelevant.
Can't have it both ways.
Either they cared, so he got inside their head, or they didn't so there is nothing to be offended about.

BB has publicly berated (or as you say made chicken **** manuevers to embarrass) many players including Freddie Mitchell, Anthony Smith, and Derrick Mason. If you don't think he would be pumping his 6 players up who got traded for 1 when they were about to play the team that made the trade, not sure what to tell you. Whether or not that would include sending them out for the coin toss is kind of irrelevant to me because its just a silly little pointless thing.

No AJ, this is who Fisher is and always has been. He's had SOME success as a HC, but not enough that he can pull off this kind of classless crap and get away with it.

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Fisher is what he is, and thats a very average coach.
It would seem though that he did pull this off and get away with it, but we disagree on it being classless.

Like I said, he's had just as many bad years as respectable ones. and very few good ones. He also used his position on the rules committee to make himself into a more important "player" than he was. He was part of Polian's cliche that has set the game on the damaging path its on now.

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I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand, other than you hate Fisher, so you are judging this action through that bias, which is basically the point I am making.
I'm far from a Fisher fan, but I can be objective.

But then again, this is just my opinion of Fisher, no one else is required to agree[/QUOTE]

I still think this was the right move to make for the Redskins, at least in theory without the benefit of hindsight. At the end of the day, you simply can't win without an elite qb in this league (or at least a qb who hotstreaks into one see Eli/Flacco). Years go by and you can have absolutely great players at almost every position, but you still won't win without that qb (see the 49ers).

A bad trade is essentially wiped out after 4 years in this league (the time for a rookie contract to end). It's better to keep looking for qbs that you know will serve you 15+ years, even if it means you are terrible for a few years as a consequence of trading up.

Anyway, they'll have to make a similar gamble at some point soon as well.

I'd have to say Jimmy Johnson and Dallas faired pretty well with the Hershel Walker trade.

Patriot Missile said:

I'd have to say Jimmy Johnson and Dallas faired pretty well with the Hershel Walker trade.

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Well, I think the argument is for Minnesota in this case, not Dallas. Minnesota went "all in" for Walker, and Dallas walked away the winner.

I find it somewhat weird that this upsets anyone. I like the fact that it is classless. To a certain degree I have always seen football as classless where guys are literally trying to knock each other out and talk smack while doing it. I can appreciate sportsmanship, but I like it when teams genuinely don't like each other and that was a massive barb before the game even started.

I don't even really hate Fisher though he is a punk. BB sometimes comes off as smug. These kind of things in sports make it more entertaining and it drives fans to root for or against them.