Browner's penalty negating McCourty TD

it was browner's shoulder to his shoulder/chest

no contact was made with neck, helmet or browner's helmet....he in fact made a huge effort to keep his head out of the play


it was a huge, nasty hit.....they made a reactionary call because his head snapped back and, well, he stayed down

cost the Pat's 7 points......they blew the call big time, but i understand why they did, given the context of today's game

Even after throwing the flag, Levy had an out. He could have reviewed the play since it did result in a turnover and all turnovers are reviewed. He could have gone to the booth, looked at the hit, and come back and said "There is no flag on the play for an illegal helmet-to-helmet hit. The Defender's shoulder hit the receiver's shoulder. The result of the play is a TD". Levy's mistake was over-reacting to what he saw and the player being down.

Also, one thing people seem to forget is that even whiplash can cause a concussion..

He can't go to the booth if New York didn't tell him to, as I understand it.

Sciz said:

It shouldn't be surprising. Refs have been throwing flags based on the outcome rather than the play itself forever. The official NFL stance is going to be that it was the neck area, because the neck area is a vague term that the NFL can turn into whatever is convenient at the time. That doesn't make it any less disgusting.

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I think it was a combination of that and the fact that his head snapped back. So, the official threw the flag, even though, on review, Browner was clearly trying to hit him with his shoulder and not his helmet. It was a "bang-bang" play so there's no way, had it been reviewed, of concluding that he was a defenseless receiver; he was trying to secure the ball and Browner was trying to tackle him.

I agree that there should be a way to review these calls. The NFL doesn't have the "slow game" problem of baseball (one game a week, 16 games, timed, etc), so they could add a few minutes to the game time. The NFL can run a few more ads and we can get a few more adult beverages and snacks.

patchick said:

They've changed the rules so that TD plays get an automatic review from upstairs. IMO turnover plays are similarly huge and deserve the same treatment.

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Turnover plays do get the same treatment. There is an automatic review. By the Replay Official upstairs. However, they aren't allowed to review the penalty. That being said, Levy could have gone and reviewed it..

Double TE said:

If this happened to Gronk we'd be screaming for a penalty. In the new NFL that is unfortunately a penalty. Unless the rules committee clarifies it we have to live with it. Eugene Wilson had a similar hit on Wayne or Harrison in the 2003 playoffs and it was considered a good hit. Things have changed with the concussion protocols, etc. I don't think Browner will be fined, however. Just take the 15 yard penalty. Fortunately did not cost the Pats, but did hurt my darn fantasy team!!!

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I don't actually agree with that it's all comes down to our home team bias. It was a big hit. That's all, so if it was a Patriot player that got lit up sure I wouldn't like it but I wouldn't expect a flag either.

Had the player bounced right up I bet NO FLAG would have been thrown. THerefore, I truly believe the refs made a reactionary call based on the outcome to the player versus making the call based on the act itself (which is in line with what some others have stated as well).

RayClay said:

It's against the rules to hit a defenseless player in the neck area. I like browner and think he was trying to hit within the rules, but a second look shows he committed a penalty without much doubt.

Somebody better at looking up rules can chime in, since they don't seem to make them easily accessible.

By the way, long time fans should know why and when they put in this rule and i don't think it was recently.

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RayClay - You're a great poster, but you're incorrect on this. As soon as the ball was tipped by Green, it's anyone's ball and he can be hit. Not sure how you can claim he committed a penalty when it was a clean shoulder to shoulder hit..

SacPete1 said:

The fact the ball was being juggled is irrelevant.

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Far from it. The fact that the ball was juggled is the reason the receiver was "defenseless", ergo it is the entire crux of your claim.

brdmaverick said:

I don't actually agree with that it's all comes down to our home team bias. It was a big hit. That's all, so if it was a Patriot player that got lit up sure I wouldn't like it but I wouldn't expect a flag either.

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Yeah, "if it happened to you!" is one of the least convincing arguments of all time.

RayClay said:

His helmet had nothing to do with it, he hit him in the neck area. there is no doubt.

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Clearly you have different idea of what the neck area is than what normal human anatomy explains it to be.

rlcarr said:

So what? Illegal hit to defenseless receiver and H2H hit have the same penalty. I can't get particularly worked up about the refs saying "helmet-to-helmet" when what did happen was still illegal (you can hate the rule, but it is the rule) and has the same penalty as what they did call.

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And that is why you will never be correct. First and foremost, if the ref can make the right call, then how do you know there was a penalty to begin with (which there wasn't). Secondly, as has been pointed out to you, as soon as the ball was tipped by Green and not caught completely, it's the equivalent of a tipped ball and the "defenseless receiver" rule no longer applies. Just like it wouldn't on a ball tipped at the LOS.

You what to blather on about the rule being the rule, yet you fully ignore other rules in the game that negate your claims.

TinhWoodhead said:

Justice was partly served a couple plays later when Ayer intercepted Rivers (drive didn't resulted in a TD)

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Yes that was good karma but what made the whole series of events so dubious was the obvious make up call on the Chargers a few plays before that. After the Browner hit, I looked at my daughter and said "in about five minutes the Chargers will get called for offensive holding or some other penalty. These things are so transparent and easy to predict.

rlcarr said:

He can't go to the booth if New York didn't tell him to, as I understand it.

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That is false. Every turnover is reviewable, whether it be by the Official upstairs, by the official in NY or by the ref on the field. Just like every scoring play is reviewable.

DaBruinz said:

That is false. Every turnover is reviewable, whether it be by the Official upstairs, by the official in NY or by the ref on the field. Just like every scoring play is reviewable.

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But......there was no turnover. Before the turnover, there was a penalty that gave the Bolts a first down.

brdmaverick said:

I don't actually agree with that it's all comes down to our home team bias. It was a big hit. That's all, so if it was a Patriot player that got lit up sure I wouldn't like it but I wouldn't expect a flag either.

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Not you perhaps but this board would be LIT UP with complaints. I d0 not like the rule nor did I like the call but I understand it. It is a softer / gentler NFL.

RayClay said:

His helmet had nothing to do with it, he hit him in the neck area. there is no doubt.

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the helmet has everything to do with the rule you produced.

it was a shoulder to shoulder hit...........regardless of what you want to call it

DaBruinz said:

Turnover plays do get the same treatment. There is an automatic review. By the Replay Official upstairs. However, they aren't allowed to review the penalty. That being said, Levy could have gone and reviewed it..

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I believe the replay is to address the turnover and not penalties during the play

Deion Sanders said it was the worst call of the year

fester said:

It was a logical call on what the official saw or thought he saw. That hit has several of the highlights/teaching points for illegal hits. The official got it wrong, but for understandable reasons. Anything with humans in the decision loop will occassionally get a good process with bad inputs which leads to bad results.

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Reasonable yes, logical no. Green was stopped cold. If that was from a blow to the head it would've been really ugly.

Based on the inconsistencies when applying pretty much all the pass related rules I think it's the process is far from good. The likelihood of that call getting made is purely dependent on the amount of force and if the player gets up. I for one am not for a hitting to hard penalty. I'm also not for guys putting on a show pretending to be injured and taking a bow after getting the flag.

TBR said:

Deion Sanders said it was the worst call of the year

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It's up there. That and the hit on Sanders during the Rams/Broncos game a few weeks ago. That both hits were flagged is an absolute travesty.