Browner's penalty negating McCourty TD

I'd like to see the league explain what Browner could have done in that situation and not been penalized.

Per the guidelines rlcarr posted, a receiver is defenseless if they are in the process of making the catch. Since Green was bobbling the ball, he was technically "defenseless" until he secured the ball. Even after he completed the catch, he would still be considered defenseless until he had time to protect himself. Given the speed and direction that Green was moving, Browner didn't have much time to consider his choices.

So what are Browner's options? If he lowers his shoulder more and hits Green in the midsection, it could still be considered a penalty. If he backs off, Green most likely secures the catch and who knows where he stops running. If he tries to go for the ball instead of making a hit, is he putting himself at risk since he's still going to collide with Green, who's bigger and heavier than he is?

meatface said:

I kind of expect the NFL to dig in their heals and fine Browner.

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Of course they will.

If that call would have cost us the game (which I thought it might at the time), I would have felt just the same as I did last year when we got boned in Carolina by the Gronk screwjob.

rlcarr said:

Leading with the shoulder on a receiver "attempting to make a catch" is still illegal if contact is made even as low as "the neck area". One may not like it (I don't particularly), but that's what the rule says.

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First off, Browner hit him in the shoulder, not the "neck area". Secondly, the ball was tipped and bobbled by the receiver. That makes it and him fair game to be hit.

As a result of the flag I was extremely upset that no refs got in Browner's way while he was running full speed.

Koma said:

I'd like to see the league explain what Browner could have done in that situation and not been penalized.

Per the guidelines rlcarr posted, a receiver is defenseless if they are in the process of making the catch. Since Green was bobbling the ball, he was technically "defenseless" until he secured the ball. Even after he completed the catch, he would still be considered defenseless until he had time to protect himself. Given the speed and direction that Green was moving, Browner didn't have much time to consider his choices.

So what are Browner's options? If he lowers his shoulder more and hits Green in the midsection, it could still be considered a penalty. If he backs off, Green most likely secures the catch and who knows where he stops running. If he tries to go for the ball instead of making a hit, is he putting himself at risk since he's still going to collide with Green, who's bigger and heavier than he is?

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Actually, your interpretation is wrong. Once the ball was tipped by Green, it's the same as if it was tipped at the line of scrimmage. It's a jump ball and it's free for anyone to go for. And the receiver can be hit to prevent him from making the catch..

rlcarr said:

You can disagree with the rule as written (and that's a fair thing to do), but given that the rule as written says it's illegal to among other things contact a "player attempting to make a catch" in the "neck area", even with "the shoulder", I don't think the call is as outrageous as many are making it out to be.

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Yes, sadly, this is the NFL today. Regardless of how the rule is written, this call was going to get made. I was watching in a place with no sound on and when I saw Browner light that guy up, I knew he was going to get called for something. Sigh. The guy is 6-4, how is he suppose to go low there? Only thing I hope is that he doesn't get fined for it on review. And I'm pretty sure he's not going to get hassled by Belichick for this penalty. I'd want Browner to do it all over again.

meatface said:

I kind of expect the NFL to dig in their heals and fine Browner.

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Of course they will. We should start a Kickstarter campaign to fund any garbage fine levied by the nfl league office. Complete with an all out attempt at media coverage.

Brandon Browner hit a receiver within the rules. Negate a touchdown in real time, and let's all assume a fine (how often do they not fine this type of penalty...)

Meanwhile that center scumbag got tenK for three punches, a knee dive, and media acknowledgment of the just egregious play, which isn't fined.

I'm serious, I want a Kickstarter campaign for Browner. I'm thinking I'll look into what is necessary for it tomorrow. Also, lets retroactively crowd fund any garbage calls from earlier in the year (Hightower got one, Jones as well against Miami I believe?).

**** these refs. If only they could be fined for awful, game changing, terrible calls. Being less worse than your peers should not be an excuse to ref a post season game. I want demerits and loss of jobs. Bring in new blood. FFS.

Worse than getting the call (maybe) wrong. (I really dont know what is and isn't a penalty these days with all the inconsistencies). I am so SICK and tired of seeing flags come out 15 seconds after the play. If you dont see it when it happens don't throw the damn flag after begging or seeing it on replay or just because someone got hurt. This crap is getting on my last nerve.

DaBruinz said:

Actually, your interpretation is wrong. Once the ball was tipped by Green, it's the same as if it was tipped at the line of scrimmage. It's a jump ball and it's free for anyone to go for. And the receiver can be hit to prevent him from making the catch..

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Okay. That make sense. The bobbling thing made me wonder if a receiver could intentionally keep juggling a pass while running downfield, while yelling "You can't hit me, I'm defenseless."

rlcarr said:

I didn't say I liked it, but on the other hand, do you want the refs to get into ignoring the rules (more than they already do)? As for what Browner is "supposed to do", he could have drilled the guy in the chest (or anywhere lower than "the neck area"). Like it or not, that's the sort of thing the rulemakers are trying to encourage.

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Ref didn't call it a defenseless receiver. He called it helmet to helmet. That being said I didn't think browner blasted him like other defenseless calls.

Even if that WAS a hit on a defenseless receiver, do the rules actually contemplate a receiver bobbling the ball indefinitely? Receivers are consistently being hit the second (or split second before) they touch the ball without flags.

Just tried to set up the Kickstarter campaign. It isn't against their posted rules, but their website was not agreeing with my phone. I'll set it up tomorrow. Any extra funds go towards some sort of smear campaign against Goodell...

rlcarr said:

I didn't say I liked it, but on the other hand, do you want the refs to get into ignoring the rules (more than they already do)? As for what Browner is "supposed to do", he could have drilled the guy in the chest (or anywhere lower than "the neck area"). Like it or not, that's the sort of thing the rulemakers are trying to encourage.

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Ignoring the rules?

Please show me the intent of the rule (as determined by the "Competition Committee") to encompass a hit to an area not the neck? I don't see "in and around the neck" or "the neck and immediate areas connected to the neck" , I see the "neck area". As defined, area: "a part of an object or surface.". Therefore, "Neck area" is a part of a neck itself and the neck surface.
So where is the intent and application that "area" means outside an "area"? Specifically, show me the penalty applied by the Refs in other games where the shoulder is determined to be the "neck area"? Show me the genesis of the rule was the Comp Committe saying "neck area" will encompass areas outside the neck?
Show me this and I'll buy your contention that a "neck area" is the neck area as well as the area not of the neck area. Otherwise you are free wheeling with the interpretation of "neck area" in a way I have never heard interpreted.
Lastly, we will ignore that this was a helmet to helmet call, where the refs (who defined the neck area as outside of the neck area) didn't make that call (which was the more obvious call)?

woolster22 said:

Of course they will. We should start a Kickstarter campaign to fund any garbage fine levied by the nfl league office.

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You'll bankrupt the country doing that

Bobsyouruncle said:

Regardless of his defenseless status he was not hit in the head or neck area. If the neck area is the shoulder, why didn't the rule say shoulder. The omission leaves us one possibility. The rule makers did not intend the neck area to be the shoulder.

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That's some fine statutory interpretation. Hope that's the kind of thing these Refs discuss.

BradyFTW! said:

I was 75 yards away from the play, and I could CLEARLY see that there was no helmet to helmet, and so could all of the Chargers fans since they went dead quiet until the convenient flag came out. One of the worst flags I've ever seen. Even in the moment it was obviously wrong

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Guess you were one of the fans yelling out ********! ********!. I could hear it thru the tv lol. More Patriots fans than Chargers fans.

Deus Irae said:

You'll bankrupt the country doing that

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Ha! I get what your meaning is there

woolster22 said:

Just tried to set up the Kickstarter campaign. It isn't against their posted rules, but their website was not agreeing with my phone. I'll set it up tomorrow. Any extra funds go towards some sort of smear campaign against Goodell...

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I like your enthusiasm. But no way would I fund a millionaires fines.

Defenseless Player = LaFell Fumbles, SD picks it up starts running, Patriot OL starts running down the field, a SD DT absolutely friggin blindsided annihilation slammin, off his feet sending the OL to the ground flat out. I think it was Connolly and he was seeing stars when he got up.
If "they" are going down this 'no hurt league' then THAT shouldn't be allowed (not arguing for that, arguing the appalling selective application of "safety" rules only in areas that will generate those thrilling catches and TDs).