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Browner's penalty negating McCourty TD


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brdmaverick

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What does everyone think about the 'helmet to helmet' penalty on Browner that negated a McCourty pick six?

Even after the win, I'm still livid that they called this back. I mean, Browner made a clean, hard hit that resulted in a game changing pick six, the ref has the nerve to give the Chargers a 'get out of jail' card. I'm so frustrated by this.

I still wouldn't agree with the call if they called it a hit on a defenseless receiver but that would be an easier sell.

Even with this play being called back, our defense came up HUGE tonight.

Go Pats.
 
It shouldn't be surprising. Refs have been throwing flags based on the outcome rather than the play itself forever. The official NFL stance is going to be that it was the neck area, because the neck area is a vague term that the NFL can turn into whatever is convenient at the time. That doesn't make it any less disgusting.
 
For reference in this thread, here's the defenseless player rule since that has at least a chance of being legitimately applied to the Browner play. (I do think a H2H call was indefensible):

NFL Rulebook 12(2)(7) said:
Article 7: Players in a Defenseless Posture. It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:
(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
(3) A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped;
(4) A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air;
(5) A player on the ground;
(6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return (Also see Article 6(g) for additional restrictions against a kicker/punter);
(7) A quarterback at any time after a change of possession (Also see Article 8(f) for additional restrictions against a quarterback after a change of possession);
(8) A player who receives a ―blindside block when the offensive blocker is moving toward or parallel to his own end line and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side, and
(9) A player who is protected from an illegal crackback block (see Article 2);
(10) The offensive player who attempts a snap during a Field Goal attempt or a Try Kick.

(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; or
(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/‖hairline‖ parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body; or
(3) Illegally launching into a defenseless opponent. It is an illegal launch if a player (i) leaves both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into his opponent, and (ii) uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/hairline parts) to initiate forcible contact against any part of his opponent’s body. Note: This does not apply to contact against a runner, unless the runner is still considered to be a defenseless player, as defined in Article 7 above.

Note 1: The provisions of (2) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or helmet in the course of a conventional tackle or block on an opponent.

Note 2: A player who initiates contact against a defenseless opponent is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball from an opponent. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a defenseless opponent, even if the opponent is an airborne player who is returning to the ground or whose body position is otherwise in motion, and irrespective of any acts by the defenseless opponent, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact.

Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant.
 
I completely lost my head on that play. Most garbage call I've seen in quite a while. For anyone who saw my mini meltdown in the game thread I do apologize. ;)
 
"Hit on a defenseless receiver" would be incredibly stupid of them to call as well.

What's Browner supposed to do?! Stand there and watch him make the catch?
 
In the abstract I agree with you. But given the text of the defenseless player rule, I don't think the call was obviously wrong if it had been announced as "illegal hit on a defenseless player".
 
This adds fuel to BB's advocacy of all calls on the field being reviewable. I find the argument against it (it lengthens the game) to be nonsensical when the NFL is shoving commercials down our throats every chance they can.
 
Stuff like this is why I rarely watch anything but the Pats nowadays. They completely screwed it up, but they'll never admit it. The NFL front office is like a toddler full of excuses.
 
I don't think it should be a penalty, but I also understand why they called it. They saw Browner launch himself at the receiver, and saw his head snap back on the hit. Whether it was presumed helmet-to-helmet contact and/or can still be justified by the "neck area" on a defenseless player, probably doesn't matter. That being said if it were a reviewable play I would hope it would be overturned even if they were leaning on the (b)(3) section of that rule regarding launching at a player, because if I'm reading it right if the guy had caught the ball cleanly before BB clocked him it wouldn't have been illegal, because he would then have been a "runner".

I guess I try to picture if that was one of our guys getting plastered (and whew boy, did he ****in smack him), would I expect a penalty be called? Would I agree with it if a penalty were called? Or would I just be really glad it was called because it negated a score? All I can come up with is I'd feel the same way I felt about the PI call for Vereen late in the 4th - I don't think it should be a penalty, but that's the way they're calling the game now and as long as it's not applied unfairly to one team or the other, you just gotta learn to play over it.
 
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The more this injustice happens the more fans the NFL will slowly start to lose trust and faith. How about letting the fans call penalties on the refs performance because this is fast becoming a joke and in another and potentially more significant game this disgraceful call would have cost us.
 
I hate to say it, but that play gets flagged nine times out of ten. Green's head snapped back and Browner hit him close to the head. Don't agree with the call, but it gets called a lot.
 
It was a terrible call, and it could have cost the Patriots the game. Browns fans understand. They got hosed in similar fashion (hit against Luck) earlier today.
 
I think due to the speed of the game flags like that should be reviewable.

And Bill has been suggested that all plays, including penalties be able to be challenged. This is a good example of why they should be reviewable.
 
I thought it was a garbage call but since it didn't change the outcome of the game I am over it. However the pats lose that game I would be in a bad mood the next couple of days.
 
Biggest bunch of BS i have seen since my ex had BS flowing out of her mouth 24/7
 
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