Bedard on Pats DB Coaching

Sometimes I think that these scribes have way too much time on their hands and have never taken any logic courses..

So lets write some crap and see what sticks...

Bedard is held to a high standard around here because, unlike the Tony Mazz school of thought, you know the 3 level program, where a player is either a horse, pony, or just sucks, Bedard actually looks at film, and tries to give an honest assessment. No agendas with him, that's why I like to hear GB opinions on things, but of course he's not always right. If he was, he'd be a scout.

Jackson 2 said:

Greg Bedard is now, and pretty much always has been, a solid football writer and observer. However, this recent phenomenon in which he's somehow been elevated to a near infallible analyst based upon his weekly gig on a radio clown act show is astounding to me. Just my take, but to use a currently popular phrase it's time to pump the brakes on Greg's sudden ascension.

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mayoclinic said:

Bingo.

This all sounds extremely fishy to me. The Pats run some of the most sophisticated defenses and coverage schemes in the league, and execute them well. I find it hard to believe that they have a bunch of glaring technical flaws due to incompetent coaching.

The Pats are paying Darrelle Revis and Brandon Browner a ton of money for a reason. They are among the best at their craft. So is Aaron Rodgers. He makes plays against the best DBs in the business, and makes the rest look foolish. It isn't all bad coaching.

I've always felt that Logan Ryan is a good zone CB with FS skills, but limited in man coverage. A lesser version of Devin McCourty. He has good ball skills, but matching him up with a bigger, more physical WR in coverage isn't playing to his strengths. I'm doubt that's on Boyer.

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Mayo, I agree with your point. Not fair comparing Ryan to Revis and Browner, but I always felt Dennard was a solid #2 CB, that would have made a great 3, but for some reason, and injury might be why, he's moved down the depth chart, and he looked terrible Sunday, along with Ryan.

Since 2000 the Patriots have drafted 27 defensive backs. How many of them improved during their time on the Patriots?

Year Round Number Player
2014 6 206 Jemea Thomas
2013 3 83 Logan Ryan
2013 3 91 Duron Harmon
2012 2 48 Tavon Wilson
2012 6 197 Nate Ebner
2012 7 224 Alfonzo Dennard
2011 2 33 Ras-I Dowling
2011 7 219 Malcolm Williams
2010 1 27 Devin McCourty
2009 2 34 Patrick Chung
2009 2 41 Darius Butler
2008 2 62 Terrence Wheatley
2008 4 129 Jonathan Wilhite
2007 1 24 Brandon Meriweather
2007 6 202 Mike Richardson
2006 7 229 Willie Andrews
2005 3 84 Ellis Hobbs
2005 4 133 James Sanders
2004 3 95 Guss Scott
2004 4 113 Dexter Reid
2004 7 233 Christian Morton
2003 2 36 Eugene Wilson
2003 4 120 Asante Samuel
2001 3 86 Brock Williams
2001 5 163 Hakim Akbar
2001 6 200 Leonard Myers
2000 6 187 Antwan Harris

Did my time machine work ? Is it 2011 again ?

Are we seriously going to do that now ? Criticise our DB coach because Aaron Rodgers, who most probably will end up being MVP, was able to pass on our 3rd and 4th DB ? For TWO FREAKING TOUCHDOWNS ? Seriously ?

God, losses really bring the crazy out..

AzorianPats said:

Bedard is held to a high standard around here because, unlike the Tony Mazz school of thought, you know the 3 level program, where a player is either a horse, pony, or just sucks, Bedard actually looks at film, and tries to give an honest assessment. No agendas with him, that's why I like to hear GB opinions on things, but of course he's not always right. If he was, he'd be a scout.

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I like Greg Bedard and his observations. I agree, he has no observable agendas. My principal point is that because he is weekly part of the disingenuous circus on 98.5 Tuesday afternoons, suddenly he's considered by many as an infallible evalaluator of all things NFL. He's not. I'll reiterate, he piled on DeGuglielmo earlier and he described Aaron Hernandez as a "good kid at heart" AFTER his arrest for murder. Bedard is an atypically keen observer. He's not infallible. He may just seem that way because he's on the radio with one blithering idiot and one phony of the enormous proportions who both literally know **** about football. They'd be better off evaluating rodeo.

I have been saying this since the first week of the season; I opened two threads relating to it.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/defensive-backs-rookie-year-into-second-year-development.1111818/#post-3895197

Look at the players, Dennard, Ryan, Harmon, Wilson, even McCourty (as a CB) had their best seasons as rookies and have regressed since.

Brady6 said:

Do you have anything to dispute Bedard on this topic or are you going to rely on his shortcomings on other topics. It sounds to me like you are trying to discredit Bedard as writer because that is your only angle since you have nothing to discredit his opinion on this topic.

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As is often the case, you're incorrect.

Miguel said:

Since 2000 the Patriots have drafted 27 defensive backs. How many of them improved during their time on the Patriots?

Year Round Number Player
2014 6 206 Jemea Thomas
2013 3 83 Logan Ryan
2013 3 91 Duron Harmon
2012 2 48 Tavon Wilson
2012 6 197 Nate Ebner
2012 7 224 Alfonzo Dennard
2011 2 33 Ras-I Dowling
2011 7 219 Malcolm Williams
2010 1 27 Devin McCourty
2009 2 34 Patrick Chung
2009 2 41 Darius Butler
2008 2 62 Terrence Wheatley
2008 4 129 Jonathan Wilhite
2007 1 24 Brandon Meriweather
2007 6 202 Mike Richardson
2006 7 229 Willie Andrews
2005 3 84 Ellis Hobbs
2005 4 133 James Sanders
2004 3 95 Guss Scott
2004 4 113 Dexter Reid
2004 7 233 Christian Morton
2003 2 36 Eugene Wilson
2003 4 120 Asante Samuel
2001 3 86 Brock Williams
2001 5 163 Hakim Akbar
2001 6 200 Leonard Myers
2000 6 187 Antwan Harris

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Surprised a statistician like yourself would post players who's career ended with injuries as someone a coach could improve. All their first round picks are still in the league.

I've never seen any even imply that Bedard is infallible. He's pretty good when it comes to analyzing technique, but he struggles with any type of schematic analysis. His biggest weakness is taking other journalist's comments as gospel.

I agree with Bedard. Dennard and Ryan were great last year, but they do seem to have regressed. Not to mentiom the rest of the listed players above. We do have a problem developing CBs.

Also, i've been dealing with this problem for sometime here since I became a poster early this year and i want to get it off my chest : if you want to compliment anything within the pats organization, you are considered a good poster. However, If you critiscize them, you are called chicken little or worse. Jesus, the pats have its faults too, just because someone doesn't jump it with the "all is good" status 100% of the time, doesnt mean that all his critics are invalid.

This is by far the most entertaining and insightful sports forum i'm a member of ( you have no idea whats like some soccer forum here), but this behavior rub me the wrong way sometimes

Since he's now in love with his own nickname, this should be backed up with more photographic evidence. What happens in year 2 that makes the players worse?

Let's not forget that BB has not drafted many DBs high. The ones that he has, he has done OK with. McCourty is a top 5 FS, Merriweather was OK and could have been elite if he took coaching, and Ras-I was a bust.

Not a bad batting average.

Does the coaching staff get any credit for turning Kyle Arrington into one of the better slot CBs in the league?

The only CB with success after busting in NE is Butler.

"The Wet Blanket of Reason" threw himself into the drying machine on this one. In other words, too much spin.

Sure, they could have made better picks/got luckier with their bottom of the second round and lower picks. Bottom 3rd and bottom 4th picks Hobbs and Asante had decent careers.

I'm not of the opinion that you make someone into a cornerback anyway.

We're saying it is the Jets coaching that is responsible for Revis' career?

Revis was a great pick at #14. How many DBs on thelist did we pick in the top 15? The answer is zero. We traded picks and drafted a bunch of predominantly low second, third and fourth picks. Outside of Samuel, who we certainly did help become a top CB, mostly by scouting his ability, out of the 4th, we had a lot of injuries and mediocre players, using mediocre picks.

Again, I don't think you get top cornerbacks consistently and you certainly don't build them out of clay. You need to either risk a very high pick, on a guy that could still be injured or fail, or you use the shotgun approach.

We drafted very low to get McCourty and converted him into one of the top safeties and got big bang clock hoping he'd develop a brain, so that's 50/50 on low round firsts and a bunch of crap shots.

I'm really surprise that Bedard thinks you can develop cornerbacks. It's really a position we're they're more born than made, which is probably why they've gambled on injured ones. Without risking a high first round pick (which still bust at this position) we don't have or trading our whole draft for one, you get players who either don't have the athletic ability at the position it's most crucial, or have attitude, injury or other concerns.

A third round pick with athletic ability, character, drive, smarts etc. is a 1st round pick. It's like drafting a bunch of outfielders hoping one becomes a shortstop. Not a learned skill.

I think Bedard's the best media guy around, but I'm not sure how I feel about these comments. So you mean to tell me that the high priced, established free agents we signed - including one of the best corners to ever play the game - have better technique then the guys they replaced on the depth chart? Yeah, not sure that's a surprise, and not sure you can pin it on the coach.

BradyManny said:

I think Bedard's the best media guy around, but I'm not sure how I feel about these comments. So you mean to tell me that the high priced, established free agents we signed - including one of the best corners to ever play the game - have better technique then the guys they replaced on the depth chart? Yeah, not sure that's a surprise, and not sure you can pin it on the coach.

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Yea, not only that but blaming that for the reason why we lost a great, close game, or bringing that up right after is kinda ehhh.

The group in general, especially considering the amount of time Rodgers had to throw I thought played good. They didn't lose Sunday because of DB technique.

to me it seems like a disconnect......can't make a fine stew with a bunch of gristle

looking at miguel's list of DBs, one can't help but notice the freakish number of reaches

mccourty and chung are the only ones who weren't, and guess what? they're on the field!!!

many of them go backwards from when they first step on the field.

one could say something similar about the WRs.......we've had a chorus line of those, too........Dobson was actually the most pathetic player of them all Sunday.......4 plays and a gimpy hammy.......

AzorianPats said:

The group in general, especially considering the amount of time Rodgers had to throw I thought played good. They didn't lose Sunday because of DB technique.

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Agree completely. Rodgers was a beast all Sunday, and he makes his third wide receivers look better than our third DBs. No shame in that.