Here Comes Dobsonmania

New England Pride said:

Are you saying Dobson can't play the Z because he isnt short, slow and white? I think my post makes perfect sense.

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That's a ridiculous statement to make and you know it. I'm saying Dobson can't play the Z because he's clearly an X. Dobson has good top end speed, not good agility and bursting. Typically Z/Y receivers are shorter, but what is short these days anyway? You have guys like Maclin and Victor Cruz that play the Z from time to time and they are 6'0".

I'm just fed up with people wanting <insert player name> to get playing time for reasons that make don't make sense. And then said people further show their lack of football knowledge by claiming you should replace a Z that is hardly getting any playing time with an X that is even more unlikely to get any playing time. It's fairy tale football at its finest.

VrabelJr said:

That's a ridiculous statement to make and you know it. I'm saying Dobson can't play the Z because he's clearly an X. Dobson has good top end speed, not good agility and bursting. Typically Z/Y receivers are shorter, but what is short these days anyway? You have guys like Maclin and Victor Cruz that play the Z from time to time and they are 6'0".

I'm just fed up with people wanting <insert player name> to get playing time for reasons that make don't make sense. And then said people further show their lack of football knowledge by claiming you should replace a Z that is hardly getting any playing time with an X that is even more unlikely to get any playing time. It's fairy tale football at its finest.

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To play the X in this system, you must be able to play all of the wide receiver positions. I agree with you that Dobson is more of an X, but to think that he can't play the Z better than Amendola is crazy IMO. Every receiver in this system must be versatile enough to play inside and outside, so why can't we get our most athletic players into the lineup? I just can't justify having Amendola out there because he's more of a prototypical Z when we saw Dobson make plays from the Z when he was last healthy. Try not to get frustrated when people argue with you in a diplomatic, respectful manner. That's the beutiful thing about this forum, not the frustrating part.

New England Pride said:

To play the X in this system, you must be able to play all of the wide receiver positions. I agree with you that Dobson is more of an X, but to think that he can't play the Z better than Amendola is crazy IMO. Every receiver in this system must be versatile enough to play inside and outside, so why can't we get our most athletic players into the lineup? I just can't justify having Amendola out there because he's more of a prototypical Z when we saw Dobson make plays from the Z when he was last healthy. Try not to get frustrated when people argue with you in a diplomatic, respectful manner. That's the beutiful thing about this forum, not the frustrating part.

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Because while Dobson is athletic, his hands were suspect at best last year and he sucked at getting lined up correctly. He is definitely not a better Z than Amendola.

Maybe Dobson knows the playbook better this year? Maybe he just doesn't give a damn about football and the coaches can smell that? Maybe he's still injured? None of us really know. He was pretty nonchalant in his post-draft interview, which kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

Also, if it weren't for Brandon LaFell getting flagged on several of Amendola's catches, he would have the normal amount of yards you expect a #4 WR to have.

VrabelJr said:

Because while Dobson is athletic, his hands were suspect at best last year and he sucked at getting lined up correctly. He is definitely not a better Z than Amendola.

Maybe Dobson knows the playbook better this year? Maybe he just doesn't give a damn about football and the coaches can smell that? Maybe he's still injured? None of us really know. He was pretty nonchalant in his post-draft interview, which kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

Also, if it weren't for Brandon LaFell getting flagged on several of Amendola's catches, he would have the normal amount of yards you expect a #4 WR to have.

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I disagree on his hands being suspect. First impressions rule the world this day and age, and his first NFL start was drop drastic. He had other drops in later starts, but later in the year it became evident that he had NFL caliber hands.

As for his personality, yeah he's a bit laid back, but as long as he's not shooting up night clubs, I don't really care what your personality is off the field.

As for Amendola, you could make the argument that picks are the only way to get this guy open, as he has struggled mightily to get open otherwise. Not trying to troll you here I just feel strongly about these topics and we can at least agree to disagree.

VrabelJr said:

Because while Dobson is athletic, his hands were suspect at best last year and he sucked at getting lined up correctly. He is definitely not a better Z than Amendola.

Maybe Dobson knows the playbook better this year? Maybe he just doesn't give a damn about football and the coaches can smell that? Maybe he's still injured? None of us really know. He was pretty nonchalant in his post-draft interview, which kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

Also, if it weren't for Brandon LaFell getting flagged on several of Amendola's catches, he would have the normal amount of yards you expect a #4 WR to have.

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I believe half his drops came in the jets game. Dobson improved drastically in the right direction until injury. Now, is it still injury, and lack of TC holding him back with others emerging, or did he regress, we don't know for sure

VrabelJr said:

But why are the names so important? Do we need validation? Dallas' passing offense is ranked 18th. Ours is 6th.

Being obligated to feed a player the ball that doesn't deserve it is a great way to be a mediocre team.

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Why doesn't he deserve some snaps? Have you seen him practice? (no) Does looking good in practice REALLY reflect how well you end up playing in-game?

TBR said:

Why doesn't he deserve some snaps? Have you seen him practice? (no) Does looking good in practice REALLY reflect how well you end up playing in-game?

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Uh, who deserves to lose snaps to Dobson?

KA- said:

Uh, who deserves to lose snaps to Dobson?

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Tyms. He's one dimensional and aside from a nice TD catch, he's accounted for a couple of drops and an INT when targeted. Brady doesn't seem to bother looking his way 96% of times he's out there anyway.

TBR said:

Why doesn't he deserve some snaps? Have you seen him practice? (no) Does looking good in practice REALLY reflect how well you end up playing in-game?

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I could ask you those very same questions, couldn't I?

TBR said:

Tyms. He's one dimensional and aside from a nice TD catch, he's accounted for a couple of drops and an INT when targeted. Brady doesn't seem to bother looking his way 96% of times he's out there anyway.

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Except Tyms isn't used the same way Dobson is

One dimensional? That's why he was brought in, to out run the other D and catch bombs.

Tyms doesn't even have close to as much time in this system as Dobson does, it's easy to pick out Tyms miscues because he has such a small sample size. Do you want to get some left over turkey and a drink so we can go over all of Dobson's miscues from last season?

VrabelJr said:

But why are the names so important? Do we need validation? Dallas' passing offense is ranked 18th. Ours is 6th.

Being obligated to feed a player the ball that doesn't deserve it is a great way to be a mediocre team.

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dobson can contribute more in the passing game then amendola/tyms. excuse me for wanting to see us develop a wr for a change.

Gronkowski123 said:

dobson can contribute more in the passing game then amendola/tyms. excuse me for wanting to see us develop a wr for a change.

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You do realize Dobson "contributing" means he needs to get 5-7 targets to be effective, and that means people who actually ARE performing will lose looks. It's a lot easier to recover from Tyms dropping 1 deep ball then forcing balls to Dobson to get him into a rhythm.

But sure, if that's what people want to see ... an offense that can't be stopped right now to "develop" a unproven WR so the "fans" can be happy.

Don't ever complain about how TB is running out of time and the Pat's don't make the effort to give him weapons blah blah blah while you are willing to sabotage an in playoff form passing offense just to "develop" a WR.

The logic is truly ridiculous.

KA- said:

The logic is truly ridiculous.

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IMHO, it is not ridiculous to take the reps given to Tyms and give them to Dobson instead. It may be wrong, but it is not ridiculous.

mgteich said:

IMHO, it is not ridiculous to take the reps given to Tyms and give them to Dobson instead. It may be wrong, but it is not ridiculous.

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Tyms doesn't see the field much, does anyone know the exact amount of plays where Tyms was on the field vs Indy and Detroit? It's probably a pretty low number, so if that is the case then why even bother having Tyms on the roster? If they want to see Dobson do the same exact thing Tyms does, then wouldn't you say to cut Tyms and bring in depth for another position?

Just because he seems to be struggling doesn't mean he won't pick it up and live up to his billing... just be patient.

Signed,

Danny Amendola, Josh Boyce, Joey Galloway, Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, Taylor Price, Chad Ochocinco, Brandon Tate, and David Terrell.

KA- said:

Tyms doesn't see the field much, does anyone know the exact amount of plays where Tyms was on the field vs Indy and Detroit? It's probably a pretty low number, so if that is the case then why even bother having Tyms on the roster? If they want to see Dobson do the same exact thing Tyms does, then wouldn't you say to cut Tyms and bring in depth for another position?

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For me, the issue is a simple one. We have two developmental players. One should be inactive and the other should be active, getting a few reps at most.

Tyms is the unproven developmental prospect. If he were inactive, we'd be in a similar situation to the one we're in. We'd have a questionable #4, active and available for a few reps. We would also have a developmental player on the 53, a prospect for 2015.

We have five developmental players who might compete for roster spots next year: Tyms, Dobson, Boyce, Krause and Orton. Belichick has decided that two are valuable enough this year to be on the roster. My preference between the two is different than Belichick's. I am fine with Tyms have a full off-season and competing for a roster spot next year. I'm even fine with Tyms being on the 53 in the off-chance that he would be needed this year. After all, if LaFell were injured, both Tyms and Dobson would be active, and LaFell inactive.

To be clear, we have only Edelman and Lafell going into 2015. After all, Amendola will almost assuredly be waived. The only question is whether he will be re-signed. Wide receiver will be a position that will be addressed in the next off-season (yet again).

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Just because he seems to be struggling doesn't mean he won't pick it up and live up to his billing... just be patient.

Signed,

Danny Amendola, Josh Boyce, Joey Galloway, Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, Taylor Price, Chad Ochocinco, Brandon Tate, and David Terrell.

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Lloyd doesn't belong in that group. I would actually not mind having Lloyd right now at all if he could play Dola's position. What we really need now is a Jabar Gaffney though.

mgteich said:

For me, the issue is a simple one. We have two developmental players. One should be inactive and the other should be active, getting a few reps at most.

Tyms is the unproven developmental prospect. If he were inactive, we'd be in a similar situation to the one we're in. We'd have a questionable #4, active and available for a few reps. We would also have a developmental player on the 53, a prospect for 2015.

We have five developmental players who might compete for roster spots next year: Tyms, Dobson, Boyce, Krause and Orton. Belichick has decided that two are valuable enough this year to be on the roster. My preference between the two is different than Belichick's. I am fine with Tyms have a full off-season and competing for a roster spot next year. I'm even fine with Tyms being on the 53 in the off-chance that he would be needed this year. After all, if LaFell were injured, both Tyms and Dobson would be active, and LaFell inactive.

To be clear, we have only Edelman and Lafell going into 2015. After all, Amendola will almost assuredly be waived. The only question is whether he will be re-signed. Wide receiver will be a position that will be addressed in the next off-season (yet again).

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I see what you're saying here but judging Dobson off the way he was used last year, you would think he requires good amount of looks and it would alter the game plan a bit (taking away from players who are having success). Tyms just seems like a guy you throw in here and there and see if he can beat someone deep for a big play or draw a PI flag, Dobson was drafted to take on a full playbook and become a stud for us. I understand we didn't have as many people to rely on last season as we do this season so that's why Dobson did get as much play time as he did, but Dobson did have some drops and definitely comes off as someone who needs to get into rhythm, at least to me he does. I really do hope he turns it all around, but I don't think right now is a good time to continue the development of Dobson, unless if someone was hurt.

Amendola, I use to say he needs to be cut but now I feel different about him as hes taken on a new role. If they can get him for real cheap, I definitely feel he can help us doing what he's doing now in his new role. I look at the WR FA list and I see a lot of names, but I also don't think a lot of those good WRs will be moved. So once you get them out of the way, the list becomes very small.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Just because he seems to be struggling doesn't mean he won't pick it up and live up to his billing... just be patient.

Signed,

Danny Amendola, Josh Boyce, Joey Galloway, Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, Taylor Price, Chad Ochocinco, Brandon Tate, and David Terrell.

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Do you honestly think that Brandon Llyod really belongs on that list? He had 74 catches with us in 2012, and had catches that totaled over 70 with other teams in 2010 and 2011 as well. so that's three years in a row of 70+ receptions.

Joey Galloway and Chad Johnson certainly lived up to their billing as WRs as well, even though they were worthless at the very end of their careers in N.England.

KA- said:

You do realize Dobson "contributing" means he needs to get 5-7 targets to be effective, and that means people who actually ARE performing will lose looks. It's a lot easier to recover from Tyms dropping 1 deep ball then forcing balls to Dobson to get him into a rhythm.

But sure, if that's what people want to see ... an offense that can't be stopped right now to "develop" a unproven WR so the "fans" can be happy.

Don't ever complain about how TB is running out of time and the Pat's don't make the effort to give him weapons blah blah blah while you are willing to sabotage an in playoff form passing offense just to "develop" a WR.

The logic is truly ridiculous.

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Your first paragraph is ridiculous, and it only goes down from there.

"Contributing" in the New England system is doing whatever you need to do for the team in the particular situation you are called upon - - NOT having to "need 5-7 targets to be effective" - - that is Dallas Cowboys mentality.

And no one in this thread was complaining about Brady's weapons and running out of time, blah, blah, blah - - you are inventing strawmen to argue there.

They have gotten nothing from Tyms since the great catch in the Buffalo game. I'm hoping the foot of Dobson gets better to the extent he can get in there and give this offense a credible deep threat that can open up opposing D's more in the playoffs. Between Gronk/Edelman and the power RBs, they may very well start crowding the box more. Loosening that up can only help.