Perfect Prospect Fits for NE

kennyb said:

Only problem with Odhighizuwa is that he's on the short side. Shades of Jermaine Cunningham? Now that you mention him.

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Odighizuwa is on the short side, and I'm not sure he is as athletic or versatile as Chandler Jones and Rob Ninkovich, but he is undoubtedly a good player.

mayoclinic said:

Odighizuwa is on the short side, and I'm not sure he is as athletic or versatile as Chandler Jones and Rob Ninkovich, but he is undoubtedly a good player.

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We need "sudden" players that can play within the system. They are very hard to find and sometimes we think we have found one but bb passes in the guy anyway.

Nate orchard may be the perfect pick. Very sudden. Good size 6'4" 255 pounds. Probably need at least a second round pick for him.

kennyb said:

Nate orchard may be the perfect pick. Very sudden. Good size 6'4" 255 pounds. Probably need at least a second round pick for him.

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Again, what is it about these guys' games that makes you label them the 'perfect' pick? Have you watched much of him on film, and what is it that you see? It takes more than just being 6'4" 255#.

FWIW, Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks had this to say about Orchard today:

The scoop: "He's one of the most frustrating prospects to watch on tape, but he could be a dynamic pass rusher as a pro." -- NFC scout on Utah DE Nate Orchard

The skinny: The evaluator's frustration stems from Orchard being misused during the early part of the season when the Utes attempted to move him around to take advantage of his skills as a playmaker. Although he has emerged as the top sack producer in college football, the 6-4, 255-pound senior is at his best when positioned in a "wide-nine" alignment and allowed to chase the passer off the edge. Orchard's ability to turn speed into power is rare. The scout pegged him as a likely Day 2 prospect (Rounds 2-3) in the draft.

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-us-what-were-hearing-about-top-nfl-prospects

I readily admit that I haven't watched much film of Orchard, so I have to take all of this with a grain of salt. But if there's any basis to the above comment, it doesn't sound like a 'perfect pic' situation to me - BB wants more than a Jim Washburn wide-9 edge rusher out of his DE/OLBs. If Orchard did indeed struggle when being moved around, that would seem like a red flag in terms of being a fit for this defense. Again, I haven't watched much film of him.

kennyb said:

Nate orchard may be the perfect pick. Very sudden. Good size 6'4" 255 pounds. Probably need at least a second round pick for him.

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He is sudden and a very good pass rusher. He's also woeful against the run from what I've seen.

Stats stats stats - what people are looking at mostly, ppl with 3-4 sacks can't be good DE' - No 10+ and hopeless vs the run make's them perfect BB picks

kennyb said:

Mike Hull, MLB PSU, small at 6'0" 230, but much like Jake Ryan. Probably a late rounder/UDFA.
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I like Mike Hull too, that probably has more than anything to do with my affinity for Penn state. But he is a leader on that defense and a real hardnose player whom I would love to see the patriots draft late or bring in as an UDFA

Luxusdk said:

Stats stats stats - what people are looking at mostly, ppl with 3-4 sacks can't be good DE' - No 10+ and hopeless vs the run make's them perfect BB picks

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That's part of why I like Danielle Hunter. As Rob Rang notes:

Hunter is a lankier athlete than [Shilique] Calhoun, but he is surprisingly strong at the point of attack and uses his length and lateral agility very well to harass quarterbacks -- rushing after them or batting down passes at the line of scrimmage. Hunter knocked down three passes, for example, against Alabama.

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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/...board-rivalry-games-give-scouts-a-unique-look

Give me a DE who plays disciplined within a scheme, who can set the edge, who can drop into zone coverage, who can bat down a lot of passes and clog the passing lanes, and who can generate consistent pressure. I don't care much about sack numbers. Hunter may or may not end up being a fit, but at least I see the potential for a multi-faceted player. Same with Bud Dupree and Dante Fowler, though their games are different.

In general, some things that I think makes a prospect a "perfect fit" for the Pats:

- Football intelligence; excels at film study
- Toughness
- Work ethic
- Leadership (team captain or other form)
- Football is important to him
- Positional versatility
- Disciplined playing style; doesn't freelance or play out of control
- Team-first approach
- Able to do a lot of things well
- Can contribute on STs

Level of competition also clearly helps, as does playing for a respected/trusted coaching staff. Character is good, but can be overlooked at times. Injuries can be a major red flag, but also a gateway to value. Athleticism and upside are good, but so is a solid floor.

A lot of these are things that BB has singled out about high draft picks in the past. For example, on BB on Dominique Easley:

- "There was plenty of good competition. You see him against guys that are either in the league from previous years or guys that you have on your draft board this year or you're going to have on there next year. I think he's a very disruptive player and he showed up against good competition."

- "He does a lot of things well. He's a smart guy, he's very instinctive. He's got a great motor, works hard. Football is very important to him. He's an all-in guy. There's not much to not like about him; versatile."

- On Easley's versatility: "He's played everywhere along the defensive line. It depends on where you put him. I'll say you don't see a lot of guys who do that — who play, I mean, he lines up on the nose, he lines up on the guard, he lines up on the tackle, he lines up wide at times. You can see him playing all those spots."

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http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...hick_says_dominique_easley_was_disruptiv.html

On Jamie Collins:

“Jamie [Collins] is an interesting guy that came into college as a safety, played inside linebacker, played outside linebacker in a 3-4 and then played defensive end last year,” said Patriots head coach Bill Belichick. “He’s been a very productive player in the kicking game. He’s got a lot of versatility, solid player, hard worker, great kid.”

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http://patch.com/massachusetts/foxborough/meet-patriots-second-round-draft-pick-jamie-collins

On Bryan Stork:

“[He] played obviously in a good program down there, played for a real good coach ‘€“ [Assistant Head Coach/Offensive Line] Coach [Rick] Trickett,” Belichick said Saturday. “He was strong; he was part of the Florida State workout the day we were there. He’€™s an athletic kid that runs fairly well. He’€™s a smart football player. He’€™s into football.

“He’€™s really a football guy; loves football, works really hard at football. He wants to be a football player and he’€™s dedicated himself to it; all those qualities that you love in any player but especially an offensive linemen. He’€™s got strength; he’€™s got a good frame for a center. He’€™s got good length and height. He played in a good program, he’€™s well coached, pretty good fundamental player. I thought he was as good as any center that we saw this year, the last couple years.”

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http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...-and-versatility-of-bryan-stork-ryan-wendell/

Some things to think about when evaluating who may be a 'perfect fit' for the Pats.

manxman2601 said:

He is sudden and a very good pass rusher. He's also woeful against the run from what I've seen.

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Agreed. Also it is hard to see bb playing this guy exclusively at the wide nine in our defense.

We all love players that are sudden, but in the pats defense there is sooooooo much more that goes into it as it is primarily a responsibility based defense. Each guy is responsible for X, Y, and Z based on what they read at the snap of the ball.

Perfect pats players are players that can execute in our read and react system, but can also explode when called upon. They are very very very hard to find.

And when we do think we find one, bb usually passes on them in the draft.

Ochmed Jones said:

Agreed. Also it is hard to see bb playing this guy exclusively at the wide nine in our defense.

We all love players that are sudden, but in the pats defense there is sooooooo much more that goes into it as it is primarily a responsibility based defense. Each guy is responsible for X, Y, and Z based on what they read at the snap of the ball.

Perfect pats players are players that can execute in our read and react system, but can also explode when called upon. They are very very very hard to find.

And when we do think we find one, bb usually passes on them in the draft.

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BB is obviously developing Chandler Jones, Dont'a Hightower, Jamie Collins and Dominique Easley in that direction. Again, I think at this very early stage that Danielle Hunter, Bud Dupree and Dante Fowler may possibly qualify.

meatface said:

I like Mike Hull too, that probably has more than anything to do with my affinity for Penn state. But he is a leader on that defense and a real hardnose player whom I would love to see the patriots draft late or bring in as an UDFA

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Why ???

Ochmed Jones said:

Agreed. Also it is hard to see bb playing this guy exclusively at the wide nine in our defense.

We all love players that are sudden, but in the pats defense there is sooooooo much more that goes into it as it is primarily a responsibility based defense. Each guy is responsible for X, Y, and Z based on what they read at the snap of the ball.

Perfect pats players are players that can execute in our read and react system, but can also explode when called upon. They are very very very hard to find.

And when we do think we find one, bb usually passes on them in the draft.

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I agree with your player profile.

Don't be cynical. There are a thousand players playing college football. Your pet project is not the only fish in the sea.

BB seems to have done more than reasonably well in finding his "Patriot Players". His supply of draft choices is limited, and your player may be an awkward fit for the selections that he has to work with.

It is possible that your player is selected before he has a pick to use. On the other hand, your 'favorite' may not be the best value available when he picks, and he can't find a reasonable trade which he can do to position for your favorite, if he wanted him.

Be happy when he agrees, and selects your 'favorite'. Your diagnostic skills are rewarded.

AzPatsFan said:

Why ???

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why would I like to see them bring him in as an UDFA? Because I am a fan of Penn State football and I like Mike Hull.

meatface said:

why would I like to see them bring him in as an UDFA? Because I am a fan of Penn State football and I like Mike Hull.

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Allow me to help you out here. You could add that he's the leading tackler in the Big 10 on a defense that is Number one in the country vs the run and 4th in scoring defense. Despite only having about 5 linebackers in scholarship. Only defense to shutdown Tevin Coleman 20 carries 71 yards. Who ran for over 200 yards on Ohio St a couple of weeks later. And, who is pretty good dropping into coverage. He'll run about a 4.6 forty and is one of the stronger players on the team. 30 reps for 225lb on the bench

captain stone said:

I ass-ume that hwsnbn refers to The Prisoner; and let's not forget Jermaine We Could've Had Golden
Tate Cunningham.

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One of those days where BB whipes that smile right off your face. When I hear them announce "DE Florida" I thought for sure Carlos Dunlaps name was gonna follow. My elation turned very sour at that moment.

Adrian amos from psu is a perfect Belichick prospecto.

kennyb said:

Adrian amos from psu is a perfect Belichick prospecto.

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Could you elaborate why you think so?

Quiet hard working played cb smart. Coach had said he could be best cb in college football...has athletic ability speed great tackler good size...smart enough to look for the ball. Could take McCourty s job.

Could be, though I hope that McCourty's not going anywhere for a few years (after signing a team-friendly contract).