Jamie Collins is a Pro-Bowler

Ring 6 · Nov 17, 2014

robertweathers said:
I'm with ya. $6m is charged to the team no matter what.

I think where I am coming from is best articulated in the attached..

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013...ion-amortization-cap-hits-dead-money-and-more

...and what Mayo stands to receive in 2015 and beyond...

http://www.patscap.com/mayo.html#mayo

In short, I don't see the Pats paying out $6.6m for him in 2015, nor the $7+m in 2016. As you say, the cap charge based on the signing bonus is sunk cost. They may convert some of his remaining $ into a signing bonus and have Mayo's cap figure lower for future years.

Gotcha.
Your comment led me to believe it was 6 mill in sb and 4 mil in new money, and I didn't look it up.
Its actually the opposite so I understand your point.

Ring 6 · Nov 17, 2014

rochrist said:
Bruschi on Collins in his chat today:

...as for Jamie Collins, the sky is the limit for him. I see a little Roman Phifer in him, I see a little Mike Vrabel in him, and then I see things that neither of those players could do athletically. I don't know how much bigger of a compliment I could give him. Those are two of the best LBs in Patriots history.

Too bad we wasted a draft pick on him

Ring 6 · Nov 17, 2014

robertweathers said:
According to Reiss, Easley did move to end on 4 man fronts. I thought that I saw him at end on a couple of occasions...

Yeah, I meant he wasn't next to Vince in 4 man front. He played some DE and he he played a lot on a 3man line dime packages, over the nose.

RobertWeathers · Nov 17, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
Yeah, I meant he wasn't next to Vince in 4 man front. He played some DE and he he played a lot on a 3man line dime packages, over the nose.

Yep. They are moving him all over the line.

meatface · Nov 21, 2014

rochrist said:
Bruschi on Collins in his chat today:

...as for Jamie Collins, the sky is the limit for him. I see a little Roman Phifer in him, I see a little Mike Vrabel in him, and then I see things that neither of those players could do athletically. I don't know how much bigger of a compliment I could give him. Those are two of the best LBs in Patriots history.

So Collins is going to be catching a TD pass sometime soon then?

AzPatsFan · Nov 21, 2014

meatface said:
So Collins is going to be catching a TD pass sometime soon then?

If JJ Watt and Mike Vrabel could do it, so can Jamie Collins.

supafly · Nov 21, 2014

Fortunately for the Patriots, they don't need to worry about whether or not Jamie Collins has earned a pro bowl spot (he definitely has not, in my opinion--although he's been a nice find, a bright spot at times, and shown improvement from the beginning of the year).

All they need to worry about is whether or not he does his job and carries out his specific assignments. Either way, he's played better than I expected him to with the loss of Mayo, and we all hope that it continues moving forward. I think the play of Hightower is what should be discussed to be completely honest, though.

SEA_Pat · Nov 21, 2014

I don't care. I can't stand it! I hate when my hyperbole blows up in my face and the worst linebacker in NFL history turns out to be a potential Pro Bowler.

Ia(m not really a)PatsFan

reflexblue · Nov 21, 2014

PatsFan2 said:
Am I crazy? As good as Mayo is when he's on I think Jamie Collins right now is better the sky's the limit for that kid. You have to wonder about the Mayo situation going forward.

imo both of mayos injuries were kind of freaky. what i mean is by freaky is that there was very little contact on either one especially his pec rupture. Makes me wonder how durable mayo will be going forward and makes me think a high round pick at lb might be in order.

ZoisKing · Nov 21, 2014

Rob0729 said:
Belichick loves Mayo and thinks when healthy he is one of the best LBs in the league. That said, his injury is hard to come back from and he will be likely be asked to restructure his deal. So there is a chance he is let go. My guess is he will be forced to take a pay cut and make up the money in future incentives.

I was watching an interview of Light, Brady, and Faulk recently and they referred to Mayo as "Belichick's son". I'd say Mayo's connection to this team runs deep, and he will be worked in somehow.

JMC00 · Nov 24, 2014

supafly · Nov 24, 2014

ZoisKing said:
I was watching an interview of Light, Brady, and Faulk recently and they referred to Mayo as "Belichick's son". I'd say Mayo's connection to this team runs deep, and he will be worked in somehow.

Yes, I agree that I don't see Mayo going anywhere, as has been predicted by some.

RobertWeathers · Nov 24, 2014

supafly said:
Yes, I agree that I don't see Mayo going anywhere, as has been predicted by some.

...as long as he agrees to restructure his deal he'll be here.

VJCPatriot · Nov 24, 2014

It doesnt make sense to get rid of Mayo next year because of the big dead money cap hit --
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/jerod-mayo/

The earliest it would make sense to move Mayo IF the reward was worth it would be 2016 where the dead money cap hit is only 2.4m

The Pats are going to roll over this year's extra cap money into 2015 anyways. So extending McCourty and Revis does not necessarily have to come at the expense of Mayo. In any case a base LB core of Mayo, Collins, and Hightower would put our best 3 LBers on the field. So all this talk of trading Mayo is premature.

If a couple million dollars would be needed to keep both Revis and McCourty, I think the more obvious candidate for trade/cut would be Amendola who is playing 3rd/4th fiddle behind Gronk, Edelman, and arguably Lafell.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/danny-amendola/

Gronkowski123 · Nov 24, 2014

i love collins...just wish he had a different number.

mgteich · Nov 24, 2014

robertweathers said:
...as long as he agrees to restructure his deal he'll be here.

Yes, it is always almost the case that a player will be here if he is of high quality and will play for greatly reduced compensation.

The reality is that avoidable Mayo salary and workout bonus totals almost $7M. The OPEN question is how much Mayo is worth. There is $6M of dead money cost which could be spread over 2 years if necessary. Outright cutting him before the season starts would save over $3.5M of cap money with no 2016 cost.

If Mayo after two injuries is considered like Wilfork, that is one situation; we might pay him over $7M of new money to play in 2015. If Mayo is thought to be worth more like $3.5M a year, then the team would be asking him to cut his compensation in half. Maybe he's agree, maybe not.

mgteich · Nov 24, 2014

VJCPatriot said:
It doesnt make sense to get rid of Mayo next year because of the big dead money cap hit --
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/jerod-mayo/

The earliest it would make sense to move Mayo IF the reward was worth it would be 2016 where the dead money cap hit is only 2.4m

The Pats are going to roll over this year's extra cap money into 2015 anyways. So extending McCourty and Revis does not necessarily have to come at the expense of Mayo. In any case a base LB core of Mayo, Collins, and Hightower would put our best 3 LBers on the field. So all this talk of trading Mayo is premature.

If a couple million dollars would be needed to keep both Revis and McCourty, I think the more obvious candidate for trade/cut would be Amendola who is playing 3rd/4th fiddle behind Gronk, Edelman, and arguably Lafell.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/danny-amendola/

I strongly disagree. You seek to avoid "dead money". Well, the total is $6M. Pay it whenever you want, in 2015, 2016 or spread between 2015 and 2016. The total is the same: $6M. There is NO reason to pay Mayo almost $7M for his 2015 services just to reduce 2016 "dead money". That makes no sense.

We can spread the dead money over 2015 and 2016 if we wish.

The OPEN issue is how much new money Mayo should be paid for future services. The $6M is gone. When it is accounted for makes little difference.

mgteich · Nov 24, 2014

Pats-Phan said:
Cutting Mayo to save less than 4 million is a bad idea because you will not get a player of Mayo's caliber for 4 million.

You are paying $7M for Mayo.

Let's try the analysis another way. Let's say that Mayo is declared a post June 1 cut. The cap savings is now $7M instead of $4M. So, $7M of 2014 cap money could theoretically be spent for another LB. I suspect that we'd spend much less and use the cap money elsewhere.

But even if we spend the cap money elsewhere, the issue becomes clear. Should we pay Mayo (or anyone another LB) $7M a year?

mgteich · Nov 24, 2014

Fencer said:
There's plenty of room for all three on the roster. In base you're happy to play all three in the usual way. In sub you're happy to include Hightower in part of the edge-rushing rotation. And as soon as one gets injured, you're definitely grateful to have the other two available.

And by the way, Rob Ninkovich will be 31 years old when he takes the field for this year's Super Bowl.

Yes, there is room for all three on the roster. And yes, we would love to ADD Mayo to what we have now.

BTW, if Mayo were a free agent this coming year, would you pay him $7M to play in 2015, with $8M in compensation if we wanted him again for 2016). And yes, I understand that Mayo is only 29 years old.

Basically, Mayo's remaining contract is for $7M in 2015 and $8M in 2016. I'm ignoring the $6M of dead money.

I'm NOT saying to cut Mayo (or suggesting asking him to take a drastic pay cut). I am just laying out the reality of the remaining years on his contract.

RobertWeathers · Nov 24, 2014

mgteich said:
If Mayo after two injuries is considered like Wilfork, that is one situation; we might pay him over $7M of new money to play in 2015. If Mayo is thought to be worth more like $3.5M a year, then the team would be asking him to cut his compensation in half. Maybe he's agree, maybe not.

I think two years straight on IR make it impossible for the team to respect the remainder of his deal w/o restructuring it to be incentive-laden based on playing-time/ # of snaps.

Jamie Collins is a Pro-Bowler

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