Lions V. Pats Post Game Thread

TommyBrady12 said:

The D is better without Mayo, I hate to say it....

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That's not true, however, when Mayo returns I think he loses his 3 down role to one of the other guys, which isn't a slight at all to Mayo.

The other 2 are very very quickly catching up to Mayo's every down capability and as strange as it sounds, Hightower has exceeded Mayo at times this season.

During the offseason, barring a big leap by HT, I gave his option a very low chance of being picked up, after this season I think it's just as likely as Jones' to be picked up.

Collins is emerging after a slow start and while he flashes all pro ability the consistency is still lacking, he's playing great far more often than he plays poorly though over the last 3-4 games.

The Defenses rise over the past few weeks, as stated, is much more about Browner returning and guys like Chung and Arrington playing near pro-bowl levels the past few weeks. They've risen to the level of the competition, especially against Denver and Indy, and in addition to Browner getting into game shape is has given us the most flexible defense in the entire NFL.

I'll also eat my crow on Browner, I was sure he would never move inside against Julius Thomas as playing inside is so much more about quickness I thought he didn't have and covering a TE removes is massive strength advantage over the offensive player, I was wrong.

I also said it's an awful idea to have him on Megatron (even though I did agree Revis was a MUCH better matchup on Tate) and he once again showed he could compete. When the ball was thrown at him it was because the safety help wasn't close enough and he still won the battle regardless, I don't think CJ was 100% healthy, but very impressive by Browner nonetheless.

I thought his main job would be to disrupt and kill routes before they start but his coverage ability, to me, is superior to what he did in Seattle. He has the length to trail and break up passes against receivers who look open.

If we lock up DMC and DR we have a group of Mayo, Hightower, Collins, DMC, Revis, Browner and Arrington together for atleast another season. That's the best back-7 core group in the NFL, its the best even without Mayo.

Arizona is heralded as the best secondary in the NFL and they were ranked 29th heading into last nights game against the pass. Sure, thats only yards, but I have a hard time crediting the 29th leakiest pass defense as the best, and they're certainly not better than us.

DaBruinz said:

No. The D is better because they added Browner. Not because they lost Mayo. Next, you're gonna say the D is better without Chandler Jones as well.. *sigh*

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No, they need chandler jones. I'm not as high on mayo as others i guess.

bresna said:

I think you missed one:



BTW, if they had called that obvious pick, it would've been 3rd and 15 instead of 1st down.

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Bresna - according to one poster, I'm not putting the blame on the players for their poor discipline and that I should expect the refs to miss calls regularly..

TommyBrady12 said:

The D is better without Mayo, I hate to say it....

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I don't see how losing Jerod Mayo could make our defense better. Hightower & Collins are playing at a high level, but Mayo's a damn good player.

Avenger said:

it looked like he dove to try to tackle Edelman and missed

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I took another look at it. You're right he does fall because his angle towards Edelman. Chung causes the angle the gunner is coming at with the small push but he doesn't cause him to fall to the ground. I was mistaken. The question is, Is that small push still a penalty? or do you need the player to fall to the ground? If it's the latter, it should not have been called. If it's the former it's a good call.

What a great return though!

strngplyr said:

I'll also eat my crow on Browner, I was sure he would never move inside against Julius Thomas as playing inside is so much more about quickness I thought he didn't have and covering a TE removes is massive strength advantage over the offensive player, I was wrong.

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Some analyst on ESPN radio (a former player) felt that a significant part of Seattle's decline on D is from letting Browner walk.

PatriotSeven said:

It's not necessarily about the Pats. It's usually about money. Or a story and entertainment, which to the NFL translates into money anyway. Cooking or fixing sports games is not much of a conspiracy. All I know is when I started noticing the blatant calls, I had to google up Vegas's betting odds right after half time because it just had that feel. The total points was 48 and it became pretty obvious we were never going to reach it. On a call probably more than half the public would take considering the Patriots have been averaging 45 points the past 3 games.

Poor refs, it's those naughty players.

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...

Wow, you think about this stuff way too much. But I'll bite. If NFL games are all rigged, then why watch at all? Its only going to go NFL's way right?

Joker said:

you want "your" team to improve minutes AFTER a resounding victory against another division leader, the third division leader in a row and seven straight? I've been a die hard Pats fan since their FIRST game and I have NEVER had the thoughts YOU posted immediately following a big win. Never. I don't know any Pats fans (among the hundreds and hundreds of fans I consider friends over the years" that would even THINK of asserting the bullcrap you did after this game.

"Pats fan since I can remember. Lifelong"
"I still remember how they used to be before all this success went to your heads."

A real Pats fan would have printed "our" instead of "your". Nice Freudian slip

You are either a mayfly, an amnesia case....or a fan of another team coming here to pizz in our cornflakes.

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Yeah, they're everywhere and they're out to get your goat. You better watch out!

Lol what joke!

But you're free to believe what you want, I suppose. Try to have a good day, eh?

ctpatsfan77 said:

Some analyst on ESPN radio (a former player) felt that a significant part of Seattle's decline on D is from letting Browner walk.

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I'd agree, the 3 or 4 SEA games i've watched this season featured Maxwell getting burnt regularly. Might be different on games I haven't seen, but Maxwell isn't on Browners level of play or physicality, they also lost their entire DL rotation to FA and Wagner was hurt for a period, those are both also big blows.

I wish we could have a board rule that complaining about the refs wasn't allowed, or at least complaining that the refs are cheating against us.

AndyJohnson said:

I wish we could have a board rule that complaining about the refs wasn't allowed, or at least complaining that the refs are cheating against us.

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Why won't they leave Jerome Borger alone???!!!!

yeah...like earlier this season at a home game..Cincinatti?..yes , Cincy...wherein Boger made horrendous ,preposterous call after horrendous call AGAINST the Pats as they were putting the wood to the Bengals....got so bad that the ENTIRE STADIUM was up and screaming at Boger on EVERY CALL. Yeah, they should have a rule preventing fans from complaining about a brain dead mongoloid in a striped shirt.

rochrist said:

Why won't they leave Jerome Borger alone???!!!!

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Eh, I just find it lame that people (same ones usually) consistently whine about the refs and act paranoid.

AndyJohnson said:

I wish we could have a board rule that complaining about the refs wasn't allowed, or at least complaining that the refs are cheating against us.

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Sometimes its warranted. I think its a bit much to say they conspire against a specific team and try to fix games. But some ref crews are really atrocious and deserve the ridicule.

Wheelman said:

I took another look at it. You're right he does fall because his angle towards Edelman. Chung causes the angle the gunner is coming at with the small push but he doesn't cause him to fall to the ground. I was mistaken. The question is, Is that small push still a penalty? or do you need the player to fall to the ground? If it's the latter, it should not have been called. If it's the former it's a good call.

What a great return though!

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I thought that it was a penalty. Chung pushed the gunner enough so he lost balance and couldn't slow down enough to make the tackle.

pwes said:

Sometimes its warranted. I think its a bit much to say they conspire against a specific team and try to fix games. But some ref crews are really atrocious and deserve the ridicule.

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Sometimes bad calls are made, and discussing them, and how they may have changed the game is as valid as discussing how a player not making a poor play would, but whining about it, listing all the penalties that you 'saw' that got missed, without looking at the other side and counting all the ones you got away with, acting as if the refs are out to get you, etc, etc, is something I just find silly.

ctpatsfan77 said:

Some analyst on ESPN radio (a former player) felt that a significant part of Seattle's decline on D is from letting Browner walk.

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Part losing Browner, but mostly losing McDonald, Clemons and Bryant on the DL has hurt them. Seattle's Secondary is still playing well, but now they have to cover their guys a bit longer than they used to.

They also haven't helped their defense by relying on Wilson on offense so much. He was on pace for a huge increase in passing attempts and rushes until the last three weeks. He's back to managing games by handing the ball off and controlling the clock. Too much, too soon for Wilson I think.

Once we get Siliga and Chandler Jones back, we will have the insane depth on the DL that Seattle had last year.

VrabelJr said:

Part losing Browner, but mostly losing McDonald, Clemons and Bryant on the DL has hurt them. Seattle's Secondary is still playing well, but now they have to cover their guys a bit longer than they used to. They also haven't helped their defense by relying on Wilson on offense so much. He was on pace for a huge increase in passing attempts and rushes until the last three weeks. He's back to managing games by handing the ball off and controlling the clock. Too much, too soon for Wilson I think.

Once we get Siliga and Chandler Jones back, we will have the insane depth on the DL that Seattle had last year.

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Didn't they also lose Mebane last week?

The Brandon Five said:

Didn't they also lose Mebane last week?

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Yep, good call!

Reviewing the game it is obvious that Suh still manhandled smaller Wendell, but nowhere near as much as at C. So Wendell still has some problems at G, with being undersized, but not as badly as at C.

The Brandon Five said:

Didn't they also lose Mebane last week?

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They also allowed Clemons and Bryant to walk. It's a cumulative effect.