Lions V. Pats Post Game Thread

DaBruinz said:

Go back and watch the replay. Ihedigbo is at least a yard closer to Brady than Gronk. And Ihedigbo and Gronk were inline with one another. That means that the ball would have been behind Gronkowski.

Gronkowski being held on the play means just that he was held. It has nothing to do with his potential of catching the ball. And Gronk wasn't catching that ball because it was a bad throw by Brady.

Click to expand...

If Gronk was being held, then it doesn't matter where Ihedigbo was, it should have been a penalty and there would be no interception. Plus, I don't entirely agree with the description of the play, to me it looked like Gronk was crossing, Ihedigbo crossed just in front of him. But if Gronk was being held and impeded then he would have been further towards the ball when it arrived. I'll wait to look at the all-22 to say more.

Belichick8384 said:

Sure. Miscalls do happen. Its all a part of the game, human error and all that. For example, no-calls sometimes happen because the ref didn't see it. Amidst the chaos of 22 players running around not the field at the same time sometimes will cause that. But that isn't to say it happens as often as most fans of pretty much every team say it does.

To me, it seems like a lot of people let emotion get the best of them and in the way of logic, and get mad and blame the ref automatically. And its pretty hard to argue intention, for those who say the refs intentionally do these things (or don't do) for money or whatever. Trust me, they get paid plenty by the NFL and all these years you'd think someone would've been caught somewhere. Besides, I doubt any team has the kind of money to pay 7 people enough to make them throw a game.

Its all too common for people to think the refs are out to get their team. And PATS fans are are far from the only ones to think so. I think people just don't want to admit faults when they see them. I mean, I understand trying to be optimistic, but there's a difference between that and being blind.

Besides, in the grand scheme of things: Its just a game. A fun one to watch, sure, but its not like our lives are depending on a win (at least I would hope not)

Click to expand...

DaBruinz said:

Go back and watch the replay. Ihedigbo is at least a yard closer to Brady than Gronk. And Ihedigbo and Gronk were inline with one another. That means that the ball would have been behind Gronkowski.

Gronkowski being held on the play means just that he was held. It has nothing to do with his potential of catching the ball. And Gronk wasn't catching that ball because it was a bad throw by Brady.

Click to expand...

You're saying that a ball that is 3 feet away from Gronk is uncatchable? If we're arguing PI, I'm not going to underestimate Gronk's ability, and I still think he could have affected the play if the defender hasn't turned him at the hip.
If we're arguing holding, then the defender's play should be looked at as affecting the play before the throw, so a "bad throw by Brady" isn't his fault.

DaBruinz said:

Go back and watch the replay. Ihedigbo is at least a yard closer to Brady than Gronk. And Ihedigbo and Gronk were inline with one another. That means that the ball would have been behind Gronkowski.

Gronkowski being held on the play means just that he was held. It has nothing to do with his potential of catching the ball. And Gronk wasn't catching that ball because it was a bad throw by Brady.

Click to expand...

How was the ball behind Gronk when he was reaching forward trying to reach it?

50-yard-line said:

How was the ball behind Gronk when he was reaching forward trying to reach it?

Click to expand...

Yeah, it wasn't behind him. I had a chance to watch it again and basically, he and Ihedigbo are crossing head to head, Gronk is being pulled by his defender and passes just slightly behind Ihedigbo. The ball is a bit away from Gronk, but not so far away that I don't think he would have caught it if he hadn't been impeded.

Belichick8384 said:

Sure. Miscalls do happen. Its all a part of the game, human error and all that. For example, no-calls sometimes happen because the ref didn't see it. Amidst the chaos of 22 players running around not the field at the same time sometimes will cause that. But that isn't to say it happens as often as most fans of pretty much every team say it does.

To me, it seems like a lot of people let emotion get the best of them and in the way of logic, and get mad and blame the ref automatically. And its pretty hard to argue intention, for those who say the refs intentionally do these things (or don't do) for money or whatever. Trust me, they get paid plenty by the NFL and all these years you'd think someone would've been caught somewhere. Besides, I doubt any team has the kind of money to pay 7 people enough to make them throw a game.

Its all too common for people to think the refs are out to get their team. And PATS fans are are far from the only ones to think so. I think people just don't want to admit faults when they see them. I mean, I understand trying to be optimistic, but there's a difference between that and being blind.


Besides, in the grand scheme of things: Its just a game. A fun one to watch, sure, but its not like our lives are depending on a win (at least I would hope not)

Click to expand...

Just stop already. Nothing you can say will justify your blanket statement that the Pats played an undisciplined game and there was no fault on the refs.. I pointed out reality to you and you've ignored it repeatedly.

The Refs were clearly biased against the Pats. No one but you implied that it was intentional or that they were somehow paid..

There is a huge difference between an honest miscall and being so clearly biased that it's ridiculous. And that is where we were at today. The ridiculous bias.

Calls involving the linemen and hands to the face aren't supposed to be missed because of the assignments that the officials have. It's the same reason that a Referee knows who committed a false start just based on which of his team threw the flag.

It's all to common for people like yourself who don't know the rules to blame the players for everything and making ridiculous claims about how good the refs are.

50-yard-line said:

How was the ball behind Gronk when he was reaching forward trying to reach it?

Click to expand...

Because you aren't thinking in 3D. You're thinking in 2D and not taking into consideration Gronk's movement in one direction and Ihedigbo's movement in the other.

DaBruinz said:

Just stop already. Nothing you can say will justify your blanket statement that the Pats played an undisciplined game and there was no fault on the refs.. I pointed out reality to you and you've ignored it repeatedly.

The Refs were clearly biased against the Pats. No one but you implied that it was intentional or that they were somehow paid..

There is a huge difference between an honest miscall and being so clearly biased that it's ridiculous. And that is where we were at today. The ridiculous bias.

Calls involving the linemen and hands to the face aren't supposed to be missed because of the assignments that the officials have. It's the same reason that a Referee knows who committed a false start just based on which of his team threw the flag.

It's all to common for people like yourself who don't know the rules to blame the players for everything and making ridiculous claims about how good the refs are.

Click to expand...

You're a very paranoid person. There is no conspiracy against the Patriots. What makes the Patriots so special to be targeted like that? What would the refs possibly hold against the Patriots? Most importantly, you cannot prove intent because that lies with the refs. You're in straight denial, no getting around that.

And I wish there were more people with common sense and hold the players responsible for their own mistakes. Its not at all common, and your statement is blatently false.

Like I said, you're in total denial there a anything wrong with the team. Its a minor problem, yes, but it is a problem that they keep committing dumb penalties. I don't see why you're so adamant about blaming everyone else but the players themselves.

I thought it was pretty funny a lot of Broncos, Colts, and Lions fans have all expressed the same blame game on the refs robbing their teams of a chance against the Patriots. Its all relative to what team you're cheering for, the refs are out to get us. Look out. Psh, right...

what team are YOU really a fan of? I mean, if we're being "relative" here...because you DAMN SURE ain't no Pats fan. You post in the manner of a lawyer so I'm surmising you bring up these "problems" as you call them, directly AFTER the Pats game, because you have this jealous, pathological need to inject YOUR negativity into what was another great win against another division leading team, so you construct this legal retort as to what a Pats fan can and cannot express their opinions on. Again, I posted the O'Hara hold in the Super Bowl RIGHT DIRECTLY IN THE LINE OF SIGHT of Mike Carey as a refutation of your "blame game" assertion.

Come into the light...Giants fan?...up late too...Denver fan?..wait, butthurt Colts fan..whatever, your axe is grinding itself into a metal toothpick.

DaBruinz said:

Love Reiss, but his hitting Collins for the mis-called penalty that was actually on Ayers is bad.

Click to expand...

A lot of people are jumping on Jamie Collins today

Joker said:

what team are YOU really a fan of? I mean, if we're being "relative" here...because you DAMN SURE ain't no Pats fan. You post in the manner of a lawyer so I'm surmising you bring up these "problems" as you call them, directly AFTER the Pats game, because you have this jealous, pathological need to inject YOUR negativity into what was another great win against another division leading team, so you construct this legal retort as to what a Pats fan can and cannot express their opinions on. Again, I posted the O'Hara hold in the Super Bowl RIGHT DIRECTLY IN THE LINE OF SIGHT of Mike Carey as a refutation of your "blame game" assertion.

Come into the light...Giants fan?...up late too...Denver fan?..wait, butthurt Colts fan..whatever, your axe is grinding itself into a metal toothpick.

Click to expand...

Pats fan since I can remember. Lifelong. I have no idea what you're on about.

I think its funny that because I want my team to improve then suddenly I'm not a fan. I'm just not an overconfident [Edited Out] about my team. I still remember how they used to be before all this success went to your heads.

DaBruinz said:

What was legal? Raiola going for Moore's knees?? No, it wasn't. It was clearly intent to injure and he said as much after the game..

Click to expand...

I thought he said it was a cut block. It was still live play and cut blocks are legal. So his play was. He never said he intended to injure. You can infer from the game situation that it was "dirty". But I don't see how it was illegal.

Belichick8384 said:

You're a very paranoid person. There is no conspiracy against the Patriots. What makes the Patriots so special to be targeted like that? What would the refs possibly hold against the Patriots? Most importantly, you cannot prove intent because that lies with the refs. You're in straight denial, no getting around that.

And I wish there were more people with common sense and hold the players responsible for their own mistakes. Its not at all common, and your statement is blatently false.

Like I said, you're in total denial there a anything wrong with the team. Its a minor problem, yes, but it is a problem that they keep committing dumb penalties. I don't see why you're so adamant about blaming everyone else but the players themselves.

I thought it was pretty funny a lot of Broncos, Colts, and Lions fans have all expressed the same blame game on the refs robbing their teams of a chance against the Patriots. Its all relative to what team you're cheering for, the refs are out to get us. Look out. Psh, right...

Click to expand...

It's not necessarily about the Pats. It's usually about money. Or a story and entertainment, which to the NFL translates into money anyway. Cooking or fixing sports games is not much of a conspiracy. All I know is when I started noticing the blatant calls, I had to google up Vegas's betting odds right after half time because it just had that feel. The total points was 48 and it became pretty obvious we were never going to reach it. On a call probably more than half the public would take considering the Patriots have been averaging 45 points the past 3 games.



Poor refs, it's those naughty players.

Belichick8384 said:

Pats fan since I can remember. Lifelong. I have no idea what you're on about.

I think its funny that because I want my team to improve then suddenly I'm not a fan. I'm just not an overconfident **** about my team. I still remember how they used to be before all this success went to your heads.

Click to expand...

you want "your" team to improve minutes AFTER a resounding victory against another division leader, the third division leader in a row and seven straight? I've been a die hard Pats fan since their FIRST game and I have NEVER had the thoughts YOU posted immediately following a big win. Never. I don't know any Pats fans (among the hundreds and hundreds of fans I consider friends over the years" that would even THINK of asserting the bullcrap you did after this game.

"Pats fan since I can remember. Lifelong"
"I still remember how they used to be before all this success went to your heads."

A real Pats fan would have printed "our" instead of "your". Nice Freudian slip

You are either a mayfly, an amnesia case....or a fan of another team coming here to pizz in our cornflakes.

BTW, iapatsfan has no margin for error after today. His 9-7 record prediction is one win away from being wrong

Belichick8384 said:

You're a very paranoid person. There is no conspiracy against the Patriots. What makes the Patriots so special to be targeted like that? What would the refs possibly hold against the Patriots? Most importantly, you cannot prove intent because that lies with the refs. You're in straight denial, no getting around that.

Click to expand...

First of all, I am not in denial about anything. I said there was a clear bias by these refs and there was. I'm not the only person to point it out. Maybe if you read other threads on the board you'd know that to be fact. Numerous other credible fans pointed it out, not just me. Instead, you lie and make crap up that wasn't said. Furthermore, you are the one who started talking conspiracy. Not me.

Belichick8384 said:

And I wish there were more people with common sense and hold the players responsible for their own mistakes. Its not at all common, and your statement is blatently false.

Click to expand...

You shouldn't be talking about common sense when you have none at all. I also placed blame where it belonged. If you had actually read my posts instead of just reacting to someone calling you on your BS, you'd know that. I said that there were two undisciplined plays. They were the blocks in the back by Chung and Bolden. You have not offered one single item of proof to counter that.

Belichick8384 said:

Like I said, you're in total denial there a anything wrong with the team. Its a minor problem, yes, but it is a problem that they keep committing dumb penalties. I don't see why you're so adamant about blaming everyone else but the players themselves.

Click to expand...

You can't point to any of my posts as proof that give even the hint of the idea that I think this team is perfect. So, now, not only do you not have common sense, you are lying about what other people say. Good Job.

I have no issue putting blame on players when they actually make mistakes. I showed that by pointing out Chung and Bolden. However, I am not you. You are the one who made the BS blanket statement that every penalty the Patriots took was legitimate and was due to a lack of discipline on the part of the players. You clearly don't know what a lack of discipline truly is.

I posted exactly what happened on plays where the Pats where given bogus penalties and where the refs missed calls on the Lions. Instead of actually refuting them, you've basically stuck your fingers in your ears and said "You're wrong, I'm right". You've offered nothing to actually counter what was presented to your erroneous argument. Not once.

If you're going to post, you should be prepared to have people counter your "argument" with facts. If you aren't willing to do that, then you shouldn't be posting. That's what I did and you've essentially thrown a tantrum. You've offered nothing to support your argument.

From Doug Kyed:

http://gfycat.com/PowerlessContentAbyssiniangroundhornbill

Watch 51, Riaola, the center.

**** this douchebag. He deserves a suspension, between publicly admitting he dove at a players knees and throwing a punch to the back of the head? Both missed or ignored by the refs (who should also be suspended for their efforts this week).

kennyb said:

I thought he said it was a cut block. It was still live play and cut blocks are legal. So his play was. He never said he intended to injure. You can infer from the game situation that it was "dirty". But I don't see how it was illegal.

Click to expand...

I've never seen a cut block where the O-line player dives forward at the knees of an opposing D-lineman. Pretty sure that falls under the league's intent to injure clause. Making it illegal.

strngplyr said:

From Doug Kyed:

http://gfycat.com/PowerlessContentAbyssiniangroundhornbill

Watch 51, Riaola, the center.

**** this douchebag. He deserves a suspension, between publicly admitting he dove at a players knees and throwing a punch to the back of the head? Both missed or ignored by the refs (who should also be suspended for their efforts this week).

Click to expand...

WOW. I totally missed the punch to the back of the head.. Clearly missed by the Refs as well..

I agree.. he should be suspended for that. In fact, had they seen it, he should have been tossed from the game, by rule..

DaBruinz said:

WOW. I totally missed the punch to the back of the head.. Clearly missed by the Refs as well..

I agree.. he should be suspended for that. In fact, had they seen it, he should have been tossed from the game, by rule..

Click to expand...

On top of the punch, he also had Moore in a headlock. I don't recall that being a called hold, either.

He punches Moore in the back of the head so hard I'm surprised his hand isn't shattered, the only credit I'll give Raiola right now is that he's a tough douchebag.