My Blueprint for the Offense

mayoclinic said:

With the Pats supposedly signing LeGarrette Blount to a 2 year deal today, the Pats currently have the following backs signed through 2015:

- Jonas Gray
- LeGarrette Blount
- James White (signed through 2017)

Shane Vereen, Stevan Ridley and Brandon Bolden are UFAs. Brandon Bolden and FB James Develin are RFAs.

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Forgot about Tyler Gaffney. With Gray, Blount, Gaffney and White on the roster for 2015 and Bolden and Develin RFAs, the Pats have a ton of depth and flexibility at the RB position. I still want Vereen back, as the 3rd down/receiving back is a key part of BB's offense and he's generally kept 2 at that position. But there's a lot of depth and talent at a shockingly low cost for the position.

It's really going to come down to numbers with vereen. He is a fantastic blocker for a back, and as long as he isn't being counted on as a top option, he has great value in both the passing and running game.

If his hands were a little better, or had an extra step, he could be a very dangerous player. As it stands, he really is a Kevin Faulk clone.

I'm really surprised about the possible passtheBlount signing. I would've been looking for a vet WR
instead of RB, especially after Gray's historic performance Sunday night.
A vet WR could've sent Tyms to the PS (we all know he would've cleard waivers) and whatever a Jonathan Krause is off of it.

Offensive needs for 2015 remain LG, WR, RG, Swing Tackle.

ATippett56 said:

My blueprint for the New England Patriots offense in the 2015 NFL Season:

Draft offensive guard, running back, offensive guard, tight end or draft offensive guard, running back, offensive guard, offensive tackle.

Dan Connolly and Marcus Cannon will be unrestricted free agents next year. Marcus Cannon is not an offensive guard but an effective right offensive tackle.

Left Tackle - Solder
Left Guard - ????
Center - Stork
Right Guard - ????
Right Tackle - Vollmer

Backup Center - Wendell (under contract for the 2015 NFL Season)
Backup Offensive Tackle - Fleming

2015 New England Patriots offense (notable players under contract):

Quarterback - Brady, Garoppolo
Offensive Center - Stork, Wendell
Offensive Guard - none worthwhile
Offensive Tackle - Fleming, Solder, Vollmer
Running Backs - White, Gaffney (IR)
Tight Ends - Gronkowski, Hoomanawanui, Wright
Wide Receivers - Amendola, Dobson, Edelman, LaFell

ERFA - Develin, Tyms, Gray (need Miguel to verify)
RFA - Bolden
UFA - Cannon, Connolly, Ridley, Slater, Vereen

Click to expand...

My blueprint for the New England Patriots offense in the 2015 NFL Season:

Draft offensive guard, running back, offensive guard, tight end, offensive tackle.

Dan Connolly and Marcus Cannon will be unrestricted free agents next year. Marcus Cannon is not an offensive guard but an effective right offensive tackle.

Left Tackle - Solder
Left Guard - ????
Center - Stork
Right Guard - ????
Right Tackle - Vollmer
Backup Center - Wendell (under contract for the 2015 NFL Season)
Backup Offensive Tackle - Fleming

2015 New England Patriots offense (notable players under contract):

Quarterback - Brady, Garoppolo
Offensive Center - Stork, Wendell
Offensive Guard - none worthwhile
Offensive Tackle - Fleming, Solder, Vollmer
Running Backs - Blount, Gaffney (IR), White
Tight Ends - Gronkowski, Hoomanawanui, Wright
Wide Receivers - Amendola, Dobson, Edelman, LaFell

ERFA - Develin, Gray, Tyms
RFA - Bolden
UFA - Cannon, Connolly, Ridley, Slater, Vereen

I think it's time to move on from Vereen after this year. Running backs should be able to run the ball and I don't think he offers enough in the passing game.

The running backs are really interesting. Thematically, the Pats hope for maximum versatility on offense as well as defense. It's really their hallmark. That's what makes Gronk so special. I think they have suffered somewhat on offense against certain defenses (and defensive coordinators) due to the lack of versatility in their running back group. Other than Vereen, their runners, while effective as inside runners, are not strong in pass protection or catching the ball out of the backfield. So when Vereen is in the game there is some scheme versatility but not when the other backs are in there. And even with Vereen, he's not a good enough insider runner to really be a big threat running the ball. So when either Blount or Grey is in the game, we tend to see a stacked d-line with some run blitzes thrown in. The Pats are able to overcome this against teams that are poor against the run or late in games once the defense tires, but earlier on the running game tends to struggle. I think this is why Bolden got some time last night. He provides more versatility despite his limitations.

Starting a high number of plays in the shotgun only exacerbates this. It's great if you have Lesean McCoy, but with just Vereen it's something of a limitation and he's about the only one who can reliably pass protect. It would be awfully nice to have someone who posed a greater threat/had greater versatility so that the Pats could more easily exploit the defensive front that they faced on any given play.

Given the favorable salary cap circumstance with the present running back group, additional investment into this group is unlikely. Maybe Gaffney will provide more of a three down threat, but probably not. We probably are going to have to live with this group (which isn't that bad after all, but could be improved somewhat) going into next year, but such is life.

mosi's man said:

The running backs are really interesting. Thematically, the Pats hope for maximum versatility on offense as well as defense. It's really their hallmark. That's what makes Gronk so special. I think they have suffered somewhat on offense against certain defenses (and defensive coordinators) due to the lack of versatility in their running back group. Other than Vereen, their runners, while effective as inside runners, are not strong in pass protection or catching the ball out of the backfield. So when Vereen is in the game there is some scheme versatility but not when the other backs are in there. And even with Vereen, he's not a good enough insider runner to really be a big threat running the ball. So when either Blount or Grey is in the game, we tend to see a stacked d-line with some run blitzes thrown in. The Pats are able to overcome this against teams that are poor against the run or late in games once the defense tires, but earlier on the running game tends to struggle. I think this is why Bolden got some time last night. He provides more versatility despite his limitations.

Starting a high number of plays in the shotgun only exacerbates this. It's great if you have Lesean McCoy, but with just Vereen it's something of a limitation and he's about the only one who can reliably pass protect. It would be awfully nice to have someone who posed a greater threat/had greater versatility so that the Pats could more easily exploit the defensive front that they faced on any given play.

Given the favorable salary cap circumstance with the present running back group, additional investment into this group is unlikely. Maybe Gaffney will provide more of a three down threat, but probably not. We probably are going to have to live with this group (which isn't that bad after all, but could be improved somewhat) going into next year, but such is life.

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Remember that Vereen is a free agent after this year though, so we may not get to "live with" this group if they decide (or he decides) not to sign a new deal. Given the major issues the Saints have had in replacing Darren Sproles, I had thought that Vereen would be a prime target for them and could be major competitors for the Pats. But if overthecap.com is right, they're in a major salary cap crunch for 2016 ($160M committed) such that they're going to be looking to cut/restructure a lot of guys next year and may not have the space for someone like Vereen.

It's a tough call on his situation because we really would love to have a complete back, which he's not, but he does have real strengths such as pass protection and the wheel routes. But I was watching highlights of the 2004 season AFC divisional game against the Colts yesterday (side note - seems like every time I watch glory-day highlights on game day the Pats lose, so my apologies to everyone), and saw an inside draw by Kevin Faulk that went for a huge gain. Reminded me of how much better this offense could be if Vereen could do that....

So the question is if there is any "3rd down RB" (I think Grid calls them FlexBacks) in the 2015 draft that could eventually replace and/or improve on Vereen?

manxman2601 said:

I think it's time to move on from Vereen after this year. Running backs should be able to run the ball and I don't think he offers enough in the passing game.

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It will depend mostly on what White brings to the table. I doubt that we will go into a season with an unknown variable as receiving back. This position is too much of a staple of our offense.

manxman2601 said:

I think it's time to move on from Vereen after this year. Running backs should be able to run the ball and I don't think he offers enough in the passing game.

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This is my thing with Vereen. He is great in the open field, but for a guy that's supposed to be a reliable receiver from the backfield, he drops way to many balls.

luuked said:

It will depend mostly on what White brings to the table. I doubt that we will go into a season with an unknown variable as receiving back. This position is too much of a staple of our offense.

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I think this is key. The position is one of prime importance to our offense, and the Pats have usually carried more than one on the roster. The 2015 draft doesn't look particular strong at this position - the RB class is very deep and strong, but not so much the flexback position. You would think the Pats would want at least one known commodity at the position, and so far White has done little to show that Vereen is expendable.

WR is now my #3 priority in the off-season, behind DE & LG.

Aaron Drop,son = official bust, Bust, BUst, BUSt, BUST, B.U.S.T.

Former Pats cast-offs like Andre Holmes & Greg Salas would be better x Infinity than this
less than useless pile of soft-bodied, soft-minded, soft-hearted poo-poo.

To think we coulda had Keenan Allen...

ATippett56 said:

My blueprint for the New England Patriots offense in the 2015 NFL Season:

Draft offensive guard, running back, offensive guard, tight end, offensive tackle.

Dan Connolly and Marcus Cannon will be unrestricted free agents next year. Marcus Cannon is not an offensive guard but an effective right offensive tackle.

Left Tackle - Solder
Left Guard - ????
Center - Stork
Right Guard - ????
Right Tackle - Vollmer
Backup Center - Wendell (under contract for the 2015 NFL Season)
Backup Offensive Tackle - Fleming

2015 New England Patriots offense (notable players under contract):

Quarterback - Brady, Garoppolo
Offensive Center - Stork, Wendell
Offensive Guard - none worthwhile
Offensive Tackle - Fleming, Solder, Vollmer
Running Backs - Blount, Gaffney (IR), White
Tight Ends - Gronkowski, Hoomanawanui, Wright
Wide Receivers - Amendola, Dobson, Edelman, LaFell

ERFA - Develin, Gray, Tyms
RFA - Bolden
UFA - Cannon, Connolly, Ridley, Slater, Vereen

Click to expand...

Tight end has been removed from the list. The New England Patriots offense can survive another season with Gronkowski, Wright, Hoomanawanui at the tight end position.

The New England Patriots definitely need to draft two defensive ends and not just one.

mayoclinic said:

I think this is key. The position is one of prime importance to our offense, and the Pats have usually carried more than one on the roster. The 2015 draft doesn't look particular strong at this position - the RB class is very deep and strong, but not so much the flexback position. You would think the Pats would want at least one known commodity at the position, and so far White has done little to show that Vereen is expendable.

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He got a redshirt year, Vereen have ( For some strange reason ) played a season without injuries. Hard to show your potential if you aint playing. From what there have come out, BB and the Coachs are happy with him, and he earned 2 or 3 practice shirts of the week FWIW. No matter what position you plays, BB prefer rookies getting a redshirt year, so I dont think he's behind at all, but I could be wrong.

Luxusdk said:

He got a redshirt year, Vereen have ( For some strange reason ) played a season without injuries. Hard to show your potential if you aint playing. From what there have come out, BB and the Coachs are happy with him, and he earned 2 or 3 practice shirts of the week FWIW. No matter what position you plays, BB prefer rookies getting a redshirt year, so I dont think he's behind at all, but I could be wrong.

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There is a difference between unproven and being behind. I have no idea if he is behind or not, only the coaches know that, but I am not sure if they risk going into a season with a player who might have not played a lot of snaps. I guess it all depends on the price tag, and since Vereen has Welker's agent I don't expect this to be an easy negotiation.

Luxusdk said:

He got a redshirt year, Vereen have ( For some strange reason ) played a season without injuries. Hard to show your potential if you aint playing. From what there have come out, BB and the Coachs are happy with him, and he earned 2 or 3 practice shirts of the week FWIW. No matter what position you plays, BB prefer rookies getting a redshirt year, so I dont think he's behind at all, but I could be wrong.

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luuked said:

There is a difference between unproven and being behind. I have no idea if he is behind or not, only the coaches know that, but I am not sure if they risk going into a season with a player who might have not played a lot of snaps. I guess it all depends on the price tag, and since Vereen has Welker's agent I don't expect this to be an easy negotiation.

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There were rumblings last spring that the coaching staff loved White, that they wanted to use more 2 RB groupings with White and Vereen both having the capability to be receivers out of the backfield, and even that White could develop into a starting back. None of those have happened so far, and there were reports that Jonas Gray leap-frogged White in training camp. We obviously don't know what's going on behind the scenes and how the coaching staff views White's development, but his lack of snaps and amount of time being a healthy scratch is concerning. I would be skeptical that the coaching staff currently views him as the "heir apparent" to the 3rd down back spot having only played briefly in 2 games so far this season.

I wouldn't be paying Vereen a lot. I like him but he's completely replaceable. A mid round guy I like is Byron Marshall. 1,000 yards rushing last year, 1,000 yards receiving this year. I know, Oregon offense, but he'd be an excellent Vereen type IMO. And cheap.

mosi's man said:

The running backs are really interesting. Thematically, the Pats hope for maximum versatility on offense as well as defense. It's really their hallmark. That's what makes Gronk so special. I think they have suffered somewhat on offense against certain defenses (and defensive coordinators) due to the lack of versatility in their running back group. Other than Vereen, their runners, while effective as inside runners, are not strong in pass protection or catching the ball out of the backfield. So when Vereen is in the game there is some scheme versatility but not when the other backs are in there. And even with Vereen, he's not a good enough insider runner to really be a big threat running the ball. So when either Blount or Grey is in the game, we tend to see a stacked d-line with some run blitzes thrown in. The Pats are able to overcome this against teams that are poor against the run or late in games once the defense tires, but earlier on the running game tends to struggle. I think this is why Bolden got some time last night. He provides more versatility despite his limitations.

Starting a high number of plays in the shotgun only exacerbates this. It's great if you have Lesean McCoy, but with just Vereen it's something of a limitation and he's about the only one who can reliably pass protect. It would be awfully nice to have someone who posed a greater threat/had greater versatility so that the Pats could more easily exploit the defensive front that they faced on any given play.

Given the favorable salary cap circumstance with the present running back group, additional investment into this group is unlikely. Maybe Gaffney will provide more of a three down threat, but probably not. We probably are going to have to live with this group (which isn't that bad after all, but could be improved somewhat) going into next year, but such is life.

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Great observation.

I completely agree. I have been somewhat confused by the Pats' approach to the RB position. It would seem to me that having a "flex back" who can be a true dual run-receiving threat would add a considerable dimension to the Pats' offense, but so far they really haven't targeted that kind of player. Vereen is a fine receiving option, but he hasn't really developed consistently as primary running back. I think he has talent close to LeSean McCoy and he's showed flashes of it at times (vs. Cincinnati, for example, when he ran with such flair that Chris Collingsworth actually compared him to Barry Sanders!), but at other times he's looked very flat, running without much power or drive. The Pats haven't developed Blount or Ridley as a receiving option, and haven't really targeted backs who could be viable 3 down dual threats. I had hoped they would sign Knowshon Moreno last off-season, but that didn't happen.

I would love to see them add a dual rushing-receiving threat (Tevin Coleman or Jay Ajayi would be great fits), but I'm not holding my breath at this point. I don't really understand it.

mayoclinic said:

There were rumblings last spring that the coaching staff loved White, that they wanted to use more 2 RB groupings with White and Vereen both having the capability to be receivers out of the backfield, and even that White could develop into a starting back. None of those have happened so far, and there were reports that Jonas Gray leap-frogged White in training camp. We obviously don't know what's going on behind the scenes and how the coaching staff views White's development, but his lack of snaps and amount of time being a healthy scratch is concerning. I would be skeptical that the coaching staff currently views him as the "heir apparent" to the 3rd down back spot having only played briefly in 2 games so far this season.

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TThe lack of game time is my main concern. There is still time, though. I would not be surprised if he could be one of the unexpected wrinkles that BB will throw out come playoff time. Vereen was forced into action against the Texans in 2012 when Woodhead got injured. But he was ready. Maybe White will also be ready by then and we can deploy some of those 2 RB formations.

captain stone said:

To think we coulda had Keenan Allen...

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Water under the bridge. FWIW, DeAndre Smelter will be better.

http://www.uthdynasty.com/uth-insider/deandre-smelter-next-great-georgia-tech-wide-receiver/

captain stone said:

WR is now my #3 priority in the off-season, behind DE & LG.

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With Aaron Dobson going on IR (as expected), I think that bringing in some split end competition is definitely needed. I personally think this can wait until day 3 of the draft.

The 2015 draft should be pretty loaded at the split end position. Based on NFL DraftScout's current rankings:

15. Kevin White, West Virginia. 6'3" 210#.
18. DeVante Parker, Louisville. 6'3" 209#.
21. Jaelen Strong, Arizona St. 6'3" 215#.
25. Devin Funchess, Michigan. 6'5" 230#.
31. Doral Green-Beckham, Oklahoma. 6'5" 230#.
43. Ty Montgomery, Stanford. 6'2" 215#.
83. Austin Hill, Arizona. 6'2" 210#.
100. Antwan Goodley, Baylor. 5'11" 225#.
155. Tony Lippett, Michigan St. 6'3" 190#.
160. Vince Mayle, Washington St. 6'3" 219#.
203. Jordan Taylor, Rice. 6'5" 210#.
216. Kasen Williams, Washington. 6'2" 216#.
248. Devante Davis, Nevada. 6'3" 210#.

Then there's my favorite (and Manx pinky) DeAndre Smelter, 6'3" 225#, currently ranked #610 and coming off an ACL injury, but a top 100 talent in my book and probably better.

I don't think you need to spend a premium pick. I'd look at Vince Mayle/Kasen Williams (projected as a day 2 pick at the start of this season) along with Smelter; maybe Goodley if he slips to the 4th round. Tim Wright is also a hybrid split tend/move TE.