Just for fun – which receiving duo would you rather have?

Galeb · Nov 4, 2014

RobAllan said:
Bad weather impeding Moss' game is untrue.

Bad weather can severely impede throwing the ball deep.

borg · Nov 4, 2014

pazrul72 said:
Moss was the 2nd best WR ever and an absolute joy to watch not to mention being part of 2 of the top 5 offenses of all time. That said I take the GOAT TE because while you may not put up as many points, while you may not have the quick strike easy score CB pants $hitting fear inducing air attack, I believe you have a harder to stop balanced attack. One of the things all of the Jimmy Grahm is as good as GRONK overlook is how much having an extra A+ run blocking LT is worth to the run game. It is why the debate is not even close as there is no non QB, in the league IMO who affects the total offense as much as Gronk. I take him everytime.

Balanced attack???? Huh?
NE has 3 rushing TDs this year. The Gronk Effect on the running game is statistically non existent through week 9. Do I expect it to improve......I do....and it better. But right now, the Gronk Effect is a myth

Comparing the great 2007 year vs. a projected 16 week 2014..
.................................2007......................2014 Projected
rush yds...................1849...............................1619
rush TDs......................17.....................................5
pass yds....................4731..............................4252
pass TDs.....................50....................................41
WW+ Moss yds.........2668
WW + Moss TDs..........31
Edel +Gronk yds..............................................2167
Edel + Gronk TDs................................................18

Welker and Moss, at their peak were dominant and vastly superior statistically than Gronk/JE. .....500 yds and 13 TDs better.....and NE's running game thrived while they were on the field. No doubt the entire 2007 roster was superior and this 2014 offense is definitely improving by leaps each and every game.
Regardless........I'll take 91 points of additional scoring directly associated with WW/Moss and 84 points of additional rushing output any day. The real question is why the Gronk/WW camp thinks 175 points less is better??

primetime · Nov 4, 2014

patsfan13 said:
The cast after Moss/Welker was thinner that year.

Gaffney would be the 3rd target on this team, he was the 4/5th on that one. How quickly we forget Kevin Faulk.

It's Moss and Welker, and it's not even close - even if we ignore Gronk's propensity for injury.

Nikolai · Nov 4, 2014

2007 was just an outrageous season. If the 2014 team continues its level of production from the last five games through the end of the year, you'll have a pretty damned good team that compares somewhat with what happened in 2007 with yards and TDs, but the personal stats of Gronk and Edelbinkie are still going to fall short.

2014 Team Stats (projected "best case" scenario based on continuing the level of production from last five games)
Pass Yards: 6,256
Pass TDs: 48 TDs

However, it's hard to match the raw production of Moss/Welker. This offense just isn't the 2007 offense. The ball gets spread around a bit more. I think that makes this offense harder to stop in January, but the two best receivers on that 2007 offense? That was a Madden-esque season from them.

203Pat · Nov 4, 2014

Galeb said:
Bad weather can severely impede throwing the ball deep.

Didn't he catch 2 or 3 TD's in the heavy snow in that game we were wearing the throwbacks?

james87654 · Nov 4, 2014

id take healthy gronk and edelman

healthy gronk is just too good.........and im a big moss fan

now if you make it 98-03 moss (his prime)........that would make it really hard

203Pat · Nov 4, 2014

To me it's Gronk and Edelman in a runaway. Gronk is one of the most dominant players of all time when healthy and complete matchup nightmare for any and everyone. He also is as mentally tough as he is physically, he won't mail it in if he's worried about his contract, or round off his routes if he doesn't think he's getting the ball. Randy Moss was one of my favorite Pats of all time but with all receivers of his caliber there is a little bit of a diva attitude.

As far as Welker vs Edelman I think the difference between the 2 is negligible and Edelman is cheaper so I'd give him the edge. Granted I'm biased because I always hated Welker but I just like Edelman's toughness and attitude.

borg · Nov 4, 2014

Galeb said:
Moss can be countered by bad weather and good defensive play. Gronk can only be countered by injury. Gronk in a landslide.

Guess defenses chose not to counter Moss with "good defensive play" 23 times in the end zone in '07...in the greatest WR season in NFL history.
Excellent analysis

BSR · Nov 4, 2014

borg said:
Guess defenses chose not to counter Moss with "good defensive play" 23 times in the end zone in '07...in the greatest WR season in NFL history.
Excellent analysis

I think it becomes a discussion because even with a healthy Moss and Welker, the Pats were shut down in that SB. Many think that in a game like that a healthy Gronk wouldn't be shut down. So it goes beyond the numbers but to me the health question is a big one. Given his physical style of play can Gronk make it through a post season.

deters · Nov 4, 2014

Voted for Gronk & Edelman. Welker was clutch at the time but he was never as good an athlete as Edelman. If it was Moss and Edelman, it might have been a harder decision.

203Pat · Nov 4, 2014

deters said:
Voted for Gronk & Edelman. Welker was clutch at the time but he was never as good an athlete as Edelman. If it was Moss and Edelman, it might have been a harder decision.

deters · Nov 4, 2014

203Pat said:

I wasn't referring to his post Moss days being clutch. The OP even states 07-09 Welker, which in that time he was one of the most sure handed guys in the league.

RobertWeathers · Nov 4, 2014

BSR said:
I think it becomes a discussion because even with a healthy Moss and Welker, the Pats were shut down in that SB. Many think that in a game like that a healthy Gronk wouldn't be shut down. So it goes beyond the numbers but to me the health question is a big one. Given his physical style of play can Gronk make it through a post season.

I'm one of those who think besides a handful of today's elite QBs, Gronk is the biggest difference maker in the NFL and more of a difference maker than Moss was for this team. I'm not a Moss basher. He was awesome here and because of his ability, they had THE greatest offense the NFL has ever seen. I consider him a 1st ballot HoF receiver and one of the most dangerous offensive weapons in NFL history. I also think that he is more talented than Gronk.

For me, it comes down to which player is better suited to be playing to Brady's strengths- short/intermediate passes, yards after catch/contact, manipulating/adjusting to defenses and knowing how situational football. Brady can put Gronk in motion, have him block the pass or run, run short, run long, etc. Moss can certainly be put in motion and because of his ability can make Brady's sometimes-not-so-great deepballs catchable. Randy is a different player.

At the end of the day, I think Brady is a better QB with Gronk than Randy.

I think WW in his prime is better than Edelman by a decent amount. However, I view them as interchangeable.

primetime · Nov 4, 2014

Predicating the answer on a Super Bowl where the offensive line couldn't protect Brady (yet they still went down and scored to take the lead at the end of the game) and a single Welker drop seems a bit absurd, no?

IllegalContact · Nov 4, 2014

borg said:
Hmmmm......Top 3 WR of all time combined with Top slot WR of all time ......Who crushed the scoring records which led to an 18-1 record. Close to 3000 yds of offense combined. More wins, more points......This is real discussion?

given the lack of ultimate success, yes it is

pazrul72 · Nov 4, 2014

borg said:
Balanced attack???? Huh?
NE has 3 rushing TDs this year. The Gronk Effect on the running game is statistically non existent through week 9. Do I expect it to improve......I do....and it better. But right now, the Gronk Effect is a myth

Comparing the great 2007 year vs. a projected 16 week 2014..
.................................2007......................2014 Projected
rush yds...................1849...............................1619
rush TDs......................17.....................................5
pass yds....................4731..............................4252
pass TDs.....................50....................................41
WW+ Moss yds.........2668
WW + Moss TDs..........31
Edel +Gronk yds..............................................2167
Edel + Gronk TDs................................................18

Welker and Moss, at their peak were dominant and vastly superior statistically than Gronk/JE. .....500 yds and 13 TDs better.....and NE's running game thrived while they were on the field. No doubt the entire 2007 roster was superior and this 2014 offense is definitely improving by leaps each and every game.
Regardless........I'll take 91 points of additional scoring directly associated with WW/Moss and 84 points of additional rushing output any day. The real question is why the Gronk/WW camp thinks 175 points less is better??

You are looking at the most ridiculous season from game one an offense has ever had versus one where the primary weapon (gronk) was coming back from injury and the offense line had lost it's longest tenured vet and counted on a couple of rookies. That 07 team had vets all over the place and started out fast. This years team had a number of questions and lost their best back to IR. The pressure of perfection and keeping up the crazy air attack eventually got to that 07 team and when they ran into team's that could shut it down they had nothing else to fall back on. I am not just focusing my gronk love on this year but on what he has contributed overall in his career. I have seen him pancake too many people to not see the A+ blocker he adds to the line when he stays in. That IMO is more valuable then a guy taking an extra safety deep every play. Now don't get me wrong Moss is amazing and the best deep threat the NFL has ever seen and it is a tough choice. Personally I think the duel threat is harder to find and more valuable so I choose gronk.

Boomer B · Nov 4, 2014

In my mind the 2007 Pats team was the best team ever in professional football. It took a injury to Brady's foot and a 1-in-a-million helmet catch for them to lose.

Moss had the 2nd greatest year a receiver ever had and is in the top 5 all time receivers. Welker is probably the best slot receiver the league has seen. I love Edelman and Gronk but i'll take Moss and Welker in 2007.

borg · Nov 4, 2014

pazrul72 said:
You are looking at the most ridiculous season

Read the OP

Randy Moss & Wes Welker (2007-09)
Rob Gronkowski & Julian Edelman

PatsFanSince74 · Nov 4, 2014

I have nothing to complain about in either duo, but if I have to choose, it's Moss and Welker, 07--09.

Moss played all 48 Regular Season games and Welker 46 during those three years. They combined for 62 TD's and almost 7,500 yards.

I think Gronk is amazing and that he should be in the discussion for MVP this season, if he stays healthy. But, that's the big "if." Edelman does it all.

But, I'll still take Randy and Wes.

pazrul72 · Nov 4, 2014

borg said:
Read the OP

Randy Moss & Wes Welker (2007-09)

Rob Gronkowski & Julian Edelman

Ok. My point still remains I take the all world TE over the all world WR. That does not take away from me considering Moss an all world WR. Welker and eldeman are a push with Welker being the better slot and Jules being the better PR.

Just for fun – which receiving duo would you rather have?

Which receiving duo would you rather have?

Randy Moss & Wes Welker (2007-09)

Rob Gronkowski & Julian Edelman

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