I don't care.I can't stand it!

JarOfMayo51 said:

The Broncos starting next year are going to be annihilated with their cap space

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Again...this is a misconception here that has been addressed by our cap guru Miguel.

Denver currently has around 40+ million in available cap space for 2015, assuming they carry their 10 million or so (approximately) over to next year. That also isn't taking the expected increase into account, which could realistically be another 8-10-12 million.

When all is said and done, DEN could have 50 million or so in available room to address their concerns. I don't think they are going to be "annihilated" no matter how we keep trying to spin it. Hopefully they have a major hole at the position of QB when Manning retires, and that sets them back a bit.

supafly said:

Again...this is a misconception here that has been addressed by our cap guru Miguel.

Denver currently has around 40+ million in available cap space for 2015, assuming they carry their 10 million or so (approximately) over to next year. That also isn't taking the expected increase into account, which could realistically be another 8-10-12 million.

When all is said and done, DEN could have 50 million or so in available room to address their concerns. I don't think they are going to be "annihilated" no matter how we keep trying to spin it. Hopefully they have a major hole at the position of QB when Manning retires, and that sets them back a bit.

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There's also the fact that they could very well clear up a bit more space by letting go of a guy like Welker, who seems to be trending downward, and might be replaceable with a cheaper option next season (perhaps via the draft?).

How much do you estimate they'll have once they lock up their key guys? And are we going to see them pick up Miller's fifth year option? Those are the questions I have.

One thing I pray doesn't happen is that the Broncos sign away yet another free agent from us this offseason. With Welker, we sorta lucked out on due to Edelmench replacing his production (still a bad decision though, but let's not dig up that ol can of worms), with Talib it was a matter of Denver offering a ludicrous back loaded deal that was utilized by Elway in the hopes that BB wouldn't find a better option at CB. However, I'd really really really really hate to see us lose another player to them

Efstratios said:

There's also the fact that they could very well clear up a bit more space by letting go of a guy like Welker, who seems to be trending downward, and could very well be replaced with a cheaper option next season.

How much do you estimate they'll have once they lock up their key guys? And are we going to see them pick up Miller's fifth year option?..

One thing I pray doesn't happen is that the Broncos sign away another free agent from us this offseason. With Welker, we sorta lucked out on due to Edelmench replacing his production (still a bad decision though, but let's not dig up that ol can of worms), with Talib it was a matter of Denver offering a ludicrous back loaded deal that was utilized by Elway in the hopes that BB wouldn't find a better option at CB. However, I'd really really really really hate to see us lose another player to them

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I'd hate to see us lose another player to them as well, but with Manning's window closing in the next couple of years, I wouldn't be surprised to see them target anyone and everyone--particularly if it means making us weaker in the process.

Since Welker is in his final year of the 2 year deal, I assume that he'll be long gone at the end of this season. There isn't any money on the books for him in 2015, due to the fact that he'll be a free agent, so they wouldn't really be saving any money on our projection from above. If they decided to re-up Welker (doubtful in my opinion), that would cut into their cap space. While I agree with you that we should've never let him go and should've bumped up the offer another 1-2 million, it's starting to appear as though Belichick may have been onto something with his timeframe of future production.

I'm not sure about any predictions re: the 2 Thomases, aside from the fact that I think they'll both stay, and I think that they can easily get by with 15m dollars in year one cap hits, depending on how they structure the contracts. Those kinds of questions would be better off left to some of the good salary cap guru's on this site. I honestly wouldn't want to insult your intelligence. Miguel has often come up with some projections regarding salary cap hits, although at this point it's really anyone's guess since we don't know how long their new proposals/potential deals may be. They could be shorter term 2-3 year deals, or they could be longer term 4-5 year deals. Hell, one could even be franchised if they want to take it slowly and can't come to an arrangement.

supafly said:

Hopefully they have a major hole at the position of QB when Manning retires, and that sets them back a bit.

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Let's be honest, Supa. By the time Peyton leaves, this board's hatred of the Broncos will probably degrade. A number of posters on this board (or at the very least, myself) hope that Denver will end up screwing themselves over because we're sicker of the Manning hype than we are of the Broncos.

I myself want them to fail at all costs, not because I have a particular loathing of their organization, (though a great deal of their fans are starting to get on my nerves, RYOBroncosFan being on the few exceptions as he has always struck me as a pleasant person to converse with *where is that guy?*), but because the media's reaction to a 2nd Manning SB win would be absolutely unbearable.

supafly said:

Since Welker is in his final year of the 2 year deal, I assume that he'll be long gone at the end of this season. There isn't any money on the books for him in 2015, due to the fact that he'll be a free agent, so they wouldn't really be saving any money on our projection from above. If they decided to re-up Welker (doubtful in my opinion), that would cut into their cap space. While I agree with you that we should've never let him go and should've bumped up the offer another 1-2 million, it's starting to appear as though Belichick may have been onto something with his timeframe of future production.

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Ah, my mistake on Welker's contract.

As far as his departure goes, I keep wondering to myself where we would be if the Pats had been able to sign him for a 2-3 year deal during the 12' off season rather than tagging him? Especially since we prioritized locking up the man who would end up locked up.

Efstratios said:

Let's be honest, Supa. By the time Peyton leaves, this board's hatred of the Broncos will probably degrade. A number of posters on this board (or at the very least, myself) hope that Denver will end up screwing themselves over because we're sicker of the Manning hype than we are of the Broncos.

I myself want them to fail at all costs, not because I have a particular loathing of their organization, (though a great deal of their fans are starting to get on my nerves, RYOBroncosFan being on the few exceptions as he has always struck me as a pleasant person to converse with *where is that guy?*), but because the media's reaction to a 2nd Manning SB win would be absolutely unbearable.

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Agreed, on all counts.

Lately, I've been sick to death of the "Manning is the classy one," and "Manning vs. Brady is the ultimate good versus evil battle in the NFL."

These are just some random comments on one of my social media sites here in Pittsburgh, whose fans are at the very top of my list of hated fanbases....possibly even above the Jets for me, since I have to live here and deal with their **** all the time. It's disgusting.

Yesterday it was "Brady is probably somewhere crying after seeing Big Ben break the record (of being the only player in the NFL with two 500+ yd games)." They are so insanely ignorant it's really unbelievable, and all of them are also firmly on the Broncos bandwagon somehow as well, throwing out comments about how it's a pleasure to watch him all the time, etc. I do my best to ignore that stuff when I see it pop up, but sometimes it's hard for me.

Efstratios said:

Ah, my mistake on Welker's contract.

As far as his departure goes, I keep wondering to myself where we would be if the Pats had been able to sign him for a 2-3 year deal during the 12' off season rather than tagging him? Especially since we prioritized locking up the man who would end up locked up.

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I really think that's the straw that broke the camel's back as far as negotiations went.

Rumor has it that both parties understood that the tag was mainly a technicality for attempting to hammer out a deal by the middle of July, which both sides felt was very realistic.

When Belichick offered a deal of (pick your source as to who you believe, since I've heard both) either 3/20 or 3/24, with a good portion guaranteed, Welked and his agent balked and didn't want to sign it (in the end Welker would receive a total of 3/22). That left Belichick cap strapped due to having dedicate 10 million dollars to Welker on the tag, since an accepted deal from Welker likely would've allowed the Pats to structure it differently and save at least several million on the 2012 cap.

As they went into the offseason for 2013, Belichick included the franchise tag as part of his 2/10 deal (since ultimately it was really a 3/20 deal if you included the year before), hence the "Patriots are staying put and refusing to budge on their deal" talk.

I'm sure that my post will stir up some bad vibes from some who feel that the front office/BB screwed Welker, which is unfortunate and not really my point. I'm simply re-hashing the story that I've heard many times regarding the 2-3 deal in 2012, which you brought up. I think it makes a lot of sense, and I believe that is what happened. When you think about it, you can see the points made by both sides, and you can see how they just couldn't come to an agreement.

supafly said:

Agreed, on all counts.

Lately, I've been sick to death of the "Manning is the classy one," and "Manning vs. Brady is the ultimate good versus evil battle in the NFL."

These are just some random comments on one of my social media sites here in Pittsburgh, whose fans are at the very top of my list of hated fanbases....possibly even above the Jets for me, since I have to live here and deal with their **** all the time. It's disgusting.

Yesterday it was "Brady is probably somewhere crying after seeing Big Ben break the record (of being the only player in the NFL with two 500+ yd games)." They are so insanely ignorant it's really unbelievable, and all of them are also firmly on the Broncos bandwagon somehow as well, throwing out comments about how it's a pleasure to watch him all the time, etc. I do my best to ignore that stuff when I see it pop up, but sometimes it's hard for me.

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Ah man, my condolences. Steelers fans are some of the absolute worst when it comes to complaining about Tom's accomplishments and jumping on Peyton's bandwagon. Not to say that I've never met some perfectly pleasant fans of the team, but next to the Jets, they seem to be the fanbase that's quickest to jump on the "SPYYGAYYTE" talking point.

As far as the Brady vs. Manning battle, I can't buy into the narrative for a variety of reasons. A big part of it is because of how sick I am of the media doing the "good vs evil" thing, but another part of my getting tired of it has to do with how it comes down to arguments that go nowhere (unless I'm on Patsfans ). These two guys compete, but they aren't directly going against each other in the same that say, Fraizer and Ali or Bird and Magic were. And it's because of that fact that it's a bit hard to buy the "epic battle of bad blood" narrative that the mediots try to depict, doubly so given how Tom and Peyton seem to sing only the utmost glowing praises to one another. Now, Sherman and Crabtree, that's a "rivalry" that seems to actually be based on animosity, even if it's not as marketable or exciting as Brady vs Manning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1664796 should be read by those who contend that the Broncos have mortgaged their future.

supafly said:

While I agree with you that we should've never let him go and should've bumped up the offer another 1-2 million, it's starting to appear as though Belichick may have been onto something with his timeframe of future production.
.

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Wasn't this debunked? Thought the Pats offered him a 3 year 24 million dollar contract prior to him hitting free agency, his agent overvalued his worth.

I also believe that contract that he rejected from the Pats was more lucrative than the one he received from the Bronco's...

I think BB had enough knowledge to know that his production could not be sustained...

When Talib was here last year we all loved his attitude and game, but when his hip started to flare up.. many of us wondered if he was done, or at least fragile...

So far he has stood the test of another NFL season, but in the back of my mind wonder how long this will last, good hips are the hallmark and standard of an NFL CB....

It has been said the Revis makes everyone on the team better...

supafly said:

Again...this is a misconception here that has been addressed by our cap guru Miguel.

Denver currently has around 40+ million in available cap space for 2015, assuming they carry their 10 million or so (approximately) over to next year. That also isn't taking the expected increase into account, which could realistically be another 8-10-12 million.

When all is said and done, DEN could have 50 million or so in available room to address their concerns. I don't think they are going to be "annihilated" no matter how we keep trying to spin it. Hopefully they have a major hole at the position of QB when Manning retires, and that sets them back a bit.

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Thanks for putting that out there. Lot's of people just assumed Elway auctioned off the future to bring in the free agents this past summer. He acutally pulled off some great moves and still has signifcant cap space for next year.

Patradomous said:

As impressive as the win was on Sunday.
The Pats have had a much easier schedule competition wise than Denver.
Its just a fact.

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On the other hand another fact is that Denver has played at home in all but two of their games - where they enjoy a unique home field advantage due to the mile high altitude. If you're going to consider the level of competition then to be fair you need to factor that in as well - the two cancel each other out.

One of those two road games was a loss, and the other was a 7-point game against a one-win team until a tunrnover at desperation time with a few seconds left made the final winning margin larger.

Denver now has to play three straight road games and six of their next eight away. Let's see how they look after that stretch.

Seriously. Why is this thread still here.

DarrylS said:

Wasn't this debunked? Thought the Pats offered him a 3 year 24 million dollar contract prior to him hitting free agency, his agent overvalued his worth.

I also believe that contract that he rejected from the Pats was more lucrative than the one he received from the Bronco's...

I think BB had enough knowledge to know that his production could not be sustained...

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I think we're basically in agreement, Darryl. There seems to be a communication issue on one of our sides, either in the way that I stated or possibly in the way that you read.

If you go back and re-read some of my comments at the top of the page about it, I think you'll see that I covered the "3/20" (or "3/24" depending on your source and who you believe) matter.

I am simply saying that I believe that we should've come up another 1-2 million total to keep him last year/this year, but also that Belichick seems to have gotten his timeframe correct as to how long he felt he'd continue to be productive.

For the record I believe that 2/11 would have gotten it done, and shown Welker that BB was willing to come up a bit in good faith. As we know, he chose to take DEN's 2/12 offer instead, and the rest is history. I can see both sides of the debate, but I must admit that while I think BB was right in the end, he could've come up from 2/10 to 2/11 and probably kept him. Just my opinion.

jmt57 said:

If you're going to consider the level of competition then to be fair you need to factor that in as well - the two cancel each other out.

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OK how about matching similar opponents??
Kansas City and the Jets .Tell me how the cancel out method works here please.

Patradomous said:

OK how about matching similar opponents??
Kansas City and the Jets .Tell me how the cancel out method works here please.

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That is what is known as a small sample size.

By the end of every season one can play the 'A beat B, and B beat C' game to eventually end up with one of the worst teams in the league in theory being better than one of the best. I could even do that now (Jacksonville beat Cleveland, who beat Pittsburgh, who beat Indy; therefore are the Jaguars better than the Colts? Denver lost to Seattle, who lost to St. Louis; therefore are the Rams better than the Broncos?)




Why are you so hung up on one aspect of the schedule yet at the same time ignoring another aspect of it?


Do you believe that the game at Kansas City is indicative of where the Patriots are today, and the games since then are an anomaly?

For the last couple days, when I've grown frustrated, I just think to myself, "I don't care. I can't stand it!", and can't help but laugh and feel alright again.

jmt57 said:

That is what is known as a small sample size.

By the end of every season one can play the 'A beat B, and B beat C' game to eventually end up with one of the worst teams in the league in theory being better than one of the best. I could even do that now (Jacksonville beat Cleveland, who beat Pittsburgh, who beat Indy; therefore are the Jaguars better than the Colts? Denver lost to Seattle, who lost to St. Louis; therfore are the Rams better than the Broncos?)

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I believe that in most years, you can actually do that circle around the whole league, ie team 1 beat 2, team 2 beat 3, ..., team 31 beat team 32, and team 32 beat team 1. pretty cool and what makes the nfl so popular

jmt57 said:

Why are you so hung up on one aspect of the schedule yet at the same time ignoring another aspect of it?

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Look let me make it simple for ya.
Look at the combined record of the Pats opponents compared Denvers its like 15-25 compared to 25-15 .
The only one hung up on a an aspect of the game is you.