OT: Why Have Peyton's Weapons Been Glossed Over By Everyone?

Efstratios said:

He also joined a team that consistently drafted in the lower and mid rounders before he joined, as you so astutely pointed out in an earlier thread B6. That, and the fact that his team isn't swallowing 7+ million in cap space due to catastrophically stupid actions of one of their erstwhile best weapons, has helped Denver a lot. Granted, I think they've managed their finances pretty well (they've got a lot of cap space next season) but they haven't been hit with an unknown-unknown to the degree that the Pats have.

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It is also worth noting that Denver received 2 first round picks and a third round pick for Jay Cutler. Plus 2 second round draft picks for Brandon Marshall. That equates to 5 additional picks in the first 3 rounds of the draft. How often can you trade a franchise QB and sign a future HOF QB plus trade a top 8 WR and draft a top 8 WR all within a 3-4 year window. To be honest considering all the money and draft picks Denver had over the past 4-5 years they aren't even that talented based on what they could have been.

Efstratios said:

With all due respect, this is utter crap in my opinion.

Manning wins another ring, and he'll be sitting with 14 playoff wins, 4 AFC Championships, and 2 SB rings. Brady is currently sitting at 18 playoff wins, 5 AFC championships, and 3 SB rings. Who has the edge here?

And as far as SB performances go, I'll take Brady's cumulative body of work there over Peyton's every time. Tom never embarrassed himself like Manning did in 48.

You can look at stats all you want, but results in the playoffs are what matter. A poster on here basically put it this way in regards to the whole Manning vs. Brady debate. "Peyton is one ring away from being in the discussion, Brady is one ring away from ending it entirely" (20+ playoff wins and 4 SBs in the cap era? I'd agree with that argument entirely). The idea that Manning will have "solidified" his place as the GOAT with a 2nd ring is preposterous in my opinion.

I don't hate Manning, he seems like a consummate competitor who loves the sport every bit as much as Tom does, has a fantastic football intellect, and as Primetime mentioned, he's a great enough QB to take a solid but not great receiver like Sanders, and make him look like an elite talent. He's probably one of the 10 best QBs to ever play the game, but I simply do not view him as being better than Tom.

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Give Manning credit he has demanded and has gotten the support structure around him to win. Tommy goes with whatever BB puts on the field.

That sucks.

Maybe we should just ask Ian to begin a Manning Sub Forum. This is ridiculous.

As BB would say, lets worry about our own team. We have enough problems. Dont care about manning this much.

Brewskies said:

Give Manning credit he has demanded and has gotten the support structure around him to win. Tommy goes with whatever BB puts on the field.

That sucks.

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That attitude by Brady came up in one of the videos of his days at Michigan. One of his advisers/counselors said that Brady will always go along with authority, and he has shown that to be very true here.

yeah yeah yeah the whole world loves Peyton and hates Brady and Brady gets no credit for anything /thread

Say what you want to say about Manning's premium weapons (they are)......regardless .....when they are wide open, Manning drops the ball right in their hands....like clock work

Interesting that this thread was started today. Yesterday I took the initiative to start a excel spread sheet comparing the the two QB'S offensive skilled positions from 2001 (leaving out Brady's 2008 & Manning's 2011 missed seasons) to the seven completed games this season.

Keep in mind that I did nothing more than compile every roster spot at WR, TE, & RB over that time period.

Most Brady defenders like to bring up the weapons that Manning has had to work with. But forget to focus in on the actual volume of games played by that talent.

I realize draft status isn't everything. (Brady) But I do believe it carries weight at the skill positions.

Manning has played with 48 # 1 picks from 2001 to 2014 compared to Brady's 33 # 1's through that same time period. The real eye opening stat is the amount of games played by those #1 picks for Manning.

You also need to add in the fact that more than half of Brady's #1's were aquired at the end of their careers, when they couldn't play anymore. (See Ocho, Galloway, J.J Stokes, K. Brady, and Winslow)

I've uploaded the file in Excel form so you can sort.

2nd attempt

Peyton Manning is the most overrated stat-compiler in the history of football. Supreme-ultimate media champion at fantasy football, 2013 Madden, and making a `regular season` career of feasting on nobodies.

Is he maybe the #6 QB of all time? Maybe. Is he a huge dork and totally unbearable doofus who chokes more often than a Darth Vader underling? Decide for yourselves.

It isn't too often you can legitimately use the term "huge dork" when it comes to professional football players, but forehead-Gomer-pouty face somehow makes it possible. If Mr. 1 & Done was alive in Unitas era of defensive brutality, he'd sooner get a job as Andy Griffith's goofy deputy than as a starting quarterback for an actual football team. I hope when he throws this seasons game losing pick-6 in the post season, the defense plays hot potatoe over his (fore) head for a gosh jolly schucks fun prank (a predetermined, phony one).

Oh, look, it's a Denver fan doing a word for word Colt fans impersonation. How adorable!

October:


January:


Patriots are gonna' stomp Denver and their Manchurian quarterback, because Tom Brady is wicked awesome, and Manning is dumb.

I think it was bush league of peyton to call out the scoreboard operator in last thursday's game against SD. Manning makes 20 million a year, the scoreboard operator does that job part time for very little money, and he is blamed? I don't get that.

Ok, this is getting embarrassing now. Why is this big foreheaded playoff choker getting so many threads on this forum?

Enough.

Lame merge.

agreed, STOP MAKING PEYTON THREADS

Sparetire said:

I'd take Addai out of the list tho...

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Why? Addai ran hard in his rookie year (the year they won the SB).

Brady and Roethlisberger have won more Super Bowls than Manning, and are putting together winning seasons surrounded by talent far inferior to Denver.

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http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/10/new...hlisberger-pittsburgh-steelers-peyton-manning

Nordberg said:

View attachment 7197

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Yeah, the two factors in Mannings favor--when compared to Brady--are where he's played his games, and the consistency of his skill position targets. Harrison, Clark and Wayne were a constant for years, now he's stepped into a situation with high-level talent in the Thomas's (though time will tell if the offense remains intact after this season). Brady's had a revolving core of receivers, from Brown and Patton to Givens and Branch to Moss and Welker to Gronk and Edelman. Every 3-4 years he's tasked with a new set of pass catchers which has an effect on scheme (or one could argue that Belichick and McDaniels have changed the scheme which has, in turn, required new receivers).

The other argument is playing conditions: years in a dome (and warm-weather and/or domed divisional stadiums too) vs years in New England, with a late Buffalo and/or NYC matchup in there as well. CHFF had a simple breakdown in 2005 or 2006, well before the Moss years, that showed Brady to have the better numbers when filtered by dome vs. open stadium, and I think if it were further broken down between dome, warm-weather game and cold-weather outdoors Brady's advantage would be even more glaring.

Manning's incredible, he's an absolute treat to watch and I'm terrified of the Broncos this seson. But it's not apples and oranges when comparing the two future HoF quarterbacks and their respective careers.

I'll throw this out there before I begin, Runandgun is a Bronco fan. Not a Manning fanboy, but diehard Bronco since 93. I understand this may come across as a Manning fanboy post, but it is not. I understand many dislike Peyton for whatever reason. I'm just attempting to give a testament/objective viewpoint on this guy and the debate over his greatness vs his WR talent.

I was a Demaryius Thomas fan and was estatic that we drafted him just because I had seen a lot of explosive plays from his college tape. He was 6'3", 230 and ran a 4.3, and was a deep threat. However, coming from Georgia Tech, the only routes he excelled at were post routes and fades downfield. I recall the 1st preseason game with Peyton where he threw DT a goal line fade route. DT made one of the worst attempts at catching the ball I've seen from a pro. He couldn't keep his feet in bounds and his hands were all types of twisted. From staying after practice and having one on one's with Peyton DT is running every route in the book and arugably top 3 in the league. This transformation does not happen without the help of Peyton. Again, I'm no Peyton fanboy, I'm a Bronco fan first. However, I hear a lot of people say Peyton is spoiled with DT, but I saw DT from day one, and was far from a polished WR.

I also get weekly calls from Steeler fans asking what in the world have we done to Sanders, because he was always decent, but looks phenominal now.

runandgun said:

This transformation does not happen without the help of Peyton. Again, I'm no Peyton fanboy, I'm a Bronco fan first. .

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Are you of the opinion that the transformation doesn't happen without Peyton, period? I've read countless articles about Brady working with Deion Branch, Welker, Edelman and others for months in the offseason, before and after practice, to perfect their timing, decision-making and route-running. So my question to you, based on your post: do you think DT wouldn't have taken off with Brady as his QB?

Anyway, I've already said my piece on this topic, they're both incredible, world-class QB's and it'll be a treat to see them match up for their annual 'who gets the #1 seed' November matchups.