The Trade - 8 Games Later

RIpats88 said:

Terrible? Tim Wright has become a contributer and weapon for tom brady and the OL is currently performing at a high level.

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.....and the Tampa Bay Buccanneers lost AT HOME to the Freakin' Minnesota Viking 19-13 yesterday.

Yes.

The fearsome Vikings defense gave up a whopping 13 points on the road to Logan Mankins' Offense.

Tampa is now 1-6.

How important is a $10 million Left Guard again for a franchise????????

chasa said:

Dues's is one of those I'm always right, even when I'm so very very wrong. hes the Felger of the forum.

I thought the trade was smart, now i think it was brilliant.

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Where has he been? I don't see him post anymore

PatCat said:

On the surface it looks like a good trade. Wright is becoming a player, that cap room most likely keeps revis and Dmac in town and the OL is holding up so I'd say more of a win than a loss.

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....and the Pats are going to get one of the top 3 picks of the 4th round!

Sciz said:

I think they have exactly as many wins as they would've had with Mankins instead of Wright, and they got a pick and a bunch of cap room for that swap. Looks good to me.

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If some of that $$ is to help keep Revis..then an obvious win

Deus Irae said:

It probably cost the team 2 games, certainly cost them at least one, and hasn't resulted in anything particularly positive. The Patriots now field an OL that still has its 2 worst players from last year, but is missing its best player, and Wright has been absolutely nothing to right home about.

Yes, that's freakin' terrible.

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1) Af the first half of the season, Tim Wright, while he is still learning the offense, now projects out to 34 Rec, 384 yards and 6 TDs.

2) The Patriots are now going to get one of the top 3 4th round picks in the 2015 Draft

3) The Pats OL has now given up 15 sacks in the first 8 games of 2014 compared to 23 in 2013

4) Tampa is 1-6 and just scratched out 13 points in a loss AT HOME to the fearsome Minnesota Vikings

5) Only Oakland and Jacksonville have scored fewer points than the Tampa Offense with the $10 million Left Guard.

Every new post you add to this subject gets funnier and funnier! Thank you!

shmessy said:

1) Af the first half of the season, Tim Wright, while he is still learning the offense, now projects out to 34 Rec, 384 yards and 6 TDs.

2) The Patriots are now going to get one of the top 3 4th round picks in the 2015 Draft

3) The Pats OL has now given up 15 sacks in the first 8 games of 2014 compared to 23 in 2013

4) Tampa is 1-6 and just scratched out 13 points AT HOME to the fearsome Minnesota Vikings

Every new post you add to this subject gets funnier and funnier! Thank you!

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Troll away, Shmessy. Keep tossing out those red herrings (record of Tampa is completely irrelevant), those weak stats as if they mean something major (34 catches? Whoop de do!), and the like. I'm not going to re-hash this trade over and over again. Just like last year with Amendola and Collins, when people like you were clowning themselves, I'll leave the field as is.

I think you could replace Fleming with prime John Hannah and the Pats still don't beat the Chiefs. I don't think there's an upgrade from the worst guard in the NFL to any guard ever that alone makes a 28 swing.

Deus Irae said:

It probably cost the team 2 games, certainly cost them at least one, and hasn't resulted in anything particularly positive. The Patriots now field an OL that still has its 2 worst players from last year, but is missing its best player, and Wright has been absolutely nothing to right home about.

Yes, that's freakin' terrible.

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The "two worst players from last year" are not playing that way this year. Both Connolly and Wendell are playing better than Mankins played last year. Last year was last year. This year, Connolly and Wendell are not only an upgrade over their 2013 selves, but the 2013 Mankins.

And I don't know if Mankins was the Pats' best o-lineman last year. And even if he was, that isn't much of a compliment.

It also didn't cost the Pats two games. What would Mankins have done to allow Moreno and Charles to run all over the Pats' defense. The Pats gave up over 200 yards on the ground in both the Pats' losses and you are blaming those losses on the loss of Mankins? It was the loss of Mankins that the Pats gave up 33 points vs. the Dolphins and 41 points vs. the Chiefs? Really?!? Even for a Deus argument, this is pathetic.

Deus Irae said:

Troll away, Shmessy. Keep tossing out those red herrings (record of Tampa is completely irrelevant), those weak stats as if they mean something major (34 catches? Whoop de do!), and the like. I'm not going to re-hash this trade over and over again. Just like last year with Amendola and Collins, when people like you were clowning themselves, I'll leave the field as is.

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Yes, your argument about the Collins pick being a horrible pick because the Pats drafted Tavon Wilson the year before and Collins didn't fit a position of need was a really moronic argument. Thanks for calling yourself out on your stupidity on that one.

To put things in perspective, Wendell and Connolly are playing like Manny Ramirez and Louis Vasquez played last year.

Deus Irae said:

Troll away, Shmessy. Keep tossing out those red herrings (record of Tampa is completely irrelevant), those weak stats as if they mean something major (34 catches? Whoop de do!), and the like. I'm not going to re-hash this trade over and over again. Just like last year with Amendola and Collins, when people like you were clowning themselves, I'll leave the field as is.

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This post sponsored by the Acme Obstinance Corporation: "Once we say it, it happens.....whether it really does or not"

Rob0729 said:

....... Really?!? Even for a Deus argument, this is pathetic.

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I think it is hilarious. This is truly some good stuff coming from him today.

Deus Irae said:

It probably cost the team 2 games, certainly cost them at least one, and hasn't resulted in anything particularly positive. The Patriots now field an OL that still has its 2 worst players from last year, but is missing its best player, and Wright has been absolutely nothing to right home about.

Yes, that's freakin' terrible.

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I agree with the first part of your post. I think it did cost us a game (or 2) and stunted the OL in terms of gelling as a unit until just recently. As for Wright, i believe the only rookie TE with more production so far is Amaro. If Wright had been in this years draft I think the overall opinion by most would be positive if we had taken him at 62 or 93 or even 130 as many here were pining for another TE in the draft.

He's was a known commodity and that was a plus and I would consider him a solid 3rd RD talent from what we've seen so far, even though reality was he was a UDRFA last year. All in all I consider this trade akin to getting a 3rd and 4th in return. We'll have to wait and see what the 4th eventually yields, but it seems like a win at this point.

The one thing I didn't like about it was the fact that Mankins was approached before the season (in Feb. I thought I heard) about a restructure and refused, so his days were #'d. Making that trade a week before the first game left a bitter taste in everyones mouth. Should have happened long before the end of August. As I stated, the jury is still out on the trade, it was just the timing I thought really sucked.

Deus Irae said:

It probably cost the team 2 games, certainly cost them at least one, and hasn't resulted in anything particularly positive. The Patriots now field an OL that still has its 2 worst players from last year, but is missing its best player, and Wright has been absolutely nothing to right home about.

Yes, that's freakin' terrible.

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What? They're 6-2, and you think they'd be 8-0 with Mankins?

You'd have a better case if you were claiming letting Tommy Kelly go cost them those two games, since in both, the defense got gashed up the gut.

I was worried for the first few games, I admit. They looked clueless - part of that was probably Mankins leaving, part the inexperience on the line, part the new coach - but the way they're coming together now is pretty damned good. I like Stork a lot, and Wendell at guard is playing at a very high level.

And Tim Wright catches everything thrown his way. He's a nice addition - hopefully, so, too, will be the very high 4th Rounder.

I'm very okay with the trade. Mankins was making way too much against the cap for the little difference he might make at this point.

The sad thing about this thread is that Deus doesn't even have to admit he was wrong about the trade to maintain credibility, but he decided to go off the deep end with his stubbornness of maintaining that it was a "terrible" trade, trying to pin the two losses on the loss of Mankins, and ignoring the fact that both Connolly and Wendell have rebounded this season to argue that they are horrible players.

All he had to do is just say that he thinks the offense would be better if Mankins was here and be done with it. But instead, he wanted to just ruin his credibility to maintain he was right and everyone else is wrong.

OhExaulted1 said:

I agree with the first part of your post. I think it did cost us a game (or 2) and stunted the OL in terms of gelling as a unit until just recently. As for Wright, i believe the only rookie TE with more production so far is Amaro. If Wright had been in this years draft I think the overall opinion by most would be positive if we had taken him at 62 or 93 or even 130 as many here were pining for another TE in the draft.

He's was a known commodity and that was a plus and I would consider him a solid 3rd RD talent from what we've seen so far, even though reality was he was a UDRFA last year. All in all I consider this trade akin to getting a 3rd and 4th in return. We'll have to wait and see what the 4th eventually yields, but it seems like a win at this point.

The one thing I didn't like about it was the fact that Mankins was approached before the season (in Feb. I thought I heard) about a restructure and refused, so his days were #'d. Making that trade a week before the first game left a bitter taste in everyones mouth. Should have happened long before the end of August. As I stated, the jury is still out on the trade, it was just the timing I thought really sucked.

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You really think if Mankins was here that the Dolphins wouldn't have scored 33 points and the Chiefs wouldn't have scored 41 points and both teams wouldn't have been able to rush for over 200 yards? I am sorry, but the loss of Mankins was only a minor factor in those two losses. The loss of Kelly was a far bigger factor if you want to kill Belichick for a bad preseason move.

Rob0729 said:

The sad thing about this thread is that Deus doesn't even have to admit he was wrong about the trade to maintain credibility, but he decided to go off the deep end with his stubbornness of maintaining that it was a "terrible" trade, trying to pin the two losses on the loss of Mankins, and ignoring the fact that both Connolly and Wendell have rebounded this season to argue that they are horrible players.

All he had to do is just say that he thinks the offense would be better if Mankins was here and be done with it. But instead, he wanted to just ruin his credibility to maintain he was right and everyone else is wrong.

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I gave up and just added him to the list.

Mankins is one loud rant about the post game catering away from being the best trade the pats have made since trading moss to the vikings

Pat the Pats Fan said:

i like the trade. I think the OL woes were more about the retirement of Dante than the the loss of Mankins….IMHO.

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They were/are more a function of getting new players acclimated to multiple roles and building chemistry.

My thoughts the day the trade happened were mixed. However the more the facts were uncovered about Mankins decline in the passing game, the more prescient this trade becomes. Mankins' game had slipped from being an elite top 3 OG, to being a solid NFL guard who was being paid top money for his position.

I also believe his trade was less about paying $6MM, than the fact he had a $10MM cap number. The Pats might have have been able to live with the $6MM payout for another year of solid but unspectacular play, but couldn't live with the $10 cap number. I speculate that the late date of the trade was an attempt by the Pats to see if Logan had upped his game this off season. When they determined they were likely to get more of the same this season and it wasn't going to get better as the years passed So they pulled the trigger. Again let me reiterate, "more of the same", didn't mean they thought he'd be bad, just not close to be being worth the cap number

The biggest loss for the Pats was the loss of his leadership and locker room presence, but as far as actual production on the field, not so much. Though I think it did effect the run game, especially early on. Nothing coming out of Tampa would lead us to believe that Mankins' play is anything more than ordinary. (BTW he only counts $6MM on the TB cap, not $10)

On the other end, Wright seems like a very nice role player who fit a need. He is slowly becoming more of a factor in the regular offense, and his 3 TDs in very limited snap confirms his value in the red zone. As of this moment it would be hard to call Wright an impact player, but clearly his best days are ahead of him. Right now he's just a nice tool in Josh's tool box.

So as of right now, the Pats lost nothing on the field, and if you want to tweak some stats, you can justify saying the OL's play has improved somewhat from last season. They got a player who had a skill set they needed, plus an additional draft pick who projects to be around #100.

Just on this basis alone, the trade has to be considered a win. THEN add the cap benefits and their potential consequences and this deal becomes an unmitigated home run. (sorry DI, but the breeze we all feel is your prodigious swing and miss. Better luck on the next one. )

It was a good trade in hindsight now.