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Chandler Jones season in jeopardy


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Damn this sucks hope he can make it for the playoff run
 
We're going to be relying on a 6th round DII rookie for significant reps. So much for depth.
It was ridiculously evident even going into the draft that the depth at DE was woeful. We're going to have to blitz a lot now, and be creative about it. Because, without that, I honestly have no idea where the pressure is going to come from.
 
Making the playoffs then seeing what happens isn't the Patriot way either.

I don't think Belichick takes the view that any season that doesn't end with a Super Bowl win is a complete failure.

After all, he's said something along the lines of "It's hard to win a Super Bowl, even when everything goes right."
 
Most likely will give it another month or so..see if it's getting better..then could decide on surgery. Should hopefully know more in a month..

But if there is any risk of making it worse if possible. Shut him down. Not worth the risk for long term hip issues.
 
It was ridiculously evident even going into the draft that the depth at DE was woeful. We're going to have to blitz a lot now, and be creative about it. Because, without that, I honestly have no idea where the pressure is going to come from.

They signed Will Smith, spent a first round pick on a guy they apparently see as having DE capabilities, drafted a raw 6th rounder with elite athleticism, had a second year player and also two LBs who could edge rush in a pinch.

It may not have worked out exactly as planned, but it was hardly unaddressed. Between OL and backup QB - the former of which was a bigger need and the latter was arguably equal - it wasn't like they had a bunch of selections made at frivolous positions.
 
They signed Will Smith, spent a first round pick on a guy they apparently see as having DE capabilities, drafted a raw 6th rounder with elite athleticism, had a second year player and also two LBs who could edge rush in a pinch.

It may not have worked out exactly as planned, but it was hardly unaddressed. Between OL and backup QB - the former of which was a bigger need and the latter was arguably equal - it wasn't like they had a bunch of selections made at frivolous positions.

Smith was a 33 year old player, coming off a completely missed 2013, and he hadn't had a big year since 2009. Their first round pick was coming off his second ACL surgery. 6th rounders are low-probability fliers. That 2nd year player is a former 7th round pick a/k/a another low probability flier.

So, yeah, DE was pretty much unaddressed. Multiple positions of need were. That's what happens when you spend your first round pick on a rehab project and then waste your second round pick on a QB in a year you should be loading up.
 
Last year, I cut the team some slack since they were decimated by injuries.

This year, we already saw how garbage the defense was (@ Dolphins, @ Chiefs) even when they WERE healthy. So it's not like I'll be thinking of "what could have been". This defense is bad healthy and will now regress to really bad when injured.
 
Seriously, are you a doctor? I'm wondering because i don't think anything's changed and there are two unknown sources, neither a doctor or speaking for the team, and 30 reports that are really just rehashes of those two.

I'd be curious if a medical person could at least throw out some possibilities.

Well he said he had 3 issues with this with his hip and athletes are much more prone to this tearing then the normal doofus like myself. So it very well could be an issue with the labral.

This is from Mayoclinic:

No I am not a doctor, no problem admitting that. I was only speculating on this since I have had some pretty serious issues with my right hip, knee and ankle over the last four years. I specifically had something called FAI (Femoroacetabular impingement) in my hip, you can live with it but it can be very painful or just annoying. it is considered genetic and not injury related although my doc wasn't convinced of this. I only noticed it after I healed up after shattering the top of my tib (tibial plateau fracture)to the point for which I almost lost my leg. Later got a new knee. Also broke the crap out of my ankle, another set of plates, screws and cable. My labrum was torn to **** and very painful and nothing other than surgery would fix it. Anyone that has torn they shoulder labrum knows this also. I've done a lot of research on these things. I raced off road dirt bikes in national events. Still ride for fun.

Anyway I was only speculating, just trying to give my 02 based on my experiences and what doctors told me over the last few years, 7 surgeries in 4 years. Typically muscle related hip injuries heal with rest and time, not months typically. That's why I was speculating on what it might me.

I was also clear to state that until he gets put on IR I won't believe anything we hear from the "media".

Anyway I wasn't trying to mislead anyone.
 
No I am not a doctor, no problem admitting that. I was only speculating on this since I have had some pretty serious issues with my right hip, knee and ankle over the last four years. I specifically had something called FAI (Femoroacetabular impingement) in my hip, you can live with it but it can be very painful or just annoying. it is considered genetic and not injury related although my doc wasn't convinced of this. I only noticed it after I healed up after shattering the top of my tib (tibial plateau fracture)to the point for which I almost lost my leg. Later got a new knee. Also broke the crap out of my ankle, another set of plates, screws and cable. My labrum was torn to **** and very painful and nothing other than surgery would fix it. Anyone that has torn they shoulder labrum knows this also. I've done a lot of research on these things. I raced off road dirt bikes in national events. Still ride for fun.

Anyway I was only speculating, just trying to give my 02 based on my experiences and what doctors told me over the last few years, 7 surgeries in 4 years. Typically muscle related hip injuries heal with rest and time, not months typically. That's why I was speculating on what it might me.

I was also clear to state that until he gets put on IR I won't believe anything we hear from the "media".

Anyway I wasn't trying to mislead anyone.

With the xray avatar, I thought it was a possibility. I don't know what the possible hip injuries are and am suspicious about the "sources" the two reporters who have spawned dozens of articles, have.
 
Some comments on the comments

1.So let me get this straight. The Pats have more sacks than last year, have given up fewer sacks, have scored 117 points over the last 3 games against some of the best DL's in the game, including a 27 points in 19 minutes without any help from turnovers effort just last week. Yup, looks like its time to panic to me. :rolleyes:

2.DO injuries hurt? Would we look better if those players were around??, Of course they would. We have lost 3 key starters. 2 for the season and one who looks like he's gone for the regular season. But the fact is that for most teams in the league that number is normal and some teams have had it worse.

3. I couldn't believe some of the posts here. "bad planning", "incompetent management"," poor cap decisions". Its like the last 13 years didn't happen, and the right of 20-20 hindsight makes everyone smarter than BB. :rolleyes: The amount of whining and complaining typical in this thread is to such a level as to equal Jet fans.....and THEY actually have reasons to be pissed.

4. What is now starting to become a pet peeve of mine is the constant uniformed speculation about injuries. I've been around for a while here, and I don't remember seeing too many guys who are Drs. AND everyone of those guys knows the folly of try ing to diagnose somebody you haven't examined PERSONALLY

5. Here's what we DO know about Jones' injury.

a. It wasn't bad enough to keep him off the field during the game after it happened.
b. It's a hip injury
c. Its serious enough to cost him anywhere from 4-8 games
d. The team is NEVER going to tell us anything about the injury for the next 4-8 weeks. Yet we will spend endless hours speculating about it.....for the next four to 8 weeks.. ;)

6. We should know by now that while losing starting players hurts, the loses are ultimately NEVER as bad as we expect. Did we all forget that by the time the playoffs came around last season, DESPITE losing our entire defensive middle, the team was playing pretty good run D at the end of the year and the playoffs. Sure it wasn't as good as it might have been with Wilfolk, Mayo, and Kelly, but by the end of the season it was respectable. In fact, during the playoffs, the Pats were tied for first in run D, giving up only 88ypg. How'd that happen with the likes of Chris Jones, Siliga and Vilano leading the way.(an UDFA and 2 scrap heap guys) ;)

7. :rolleyes:
 
According to La Canfora:

Chandler Jones, the Patriots' top pass rushing threat and one of the key members of their defense, will not need surgery on his injured hip, according to sources with knowledge of the situation, and has been prescribed at least four weeks of rest until he can return.

He does not have a torn labrum, the sources said, and the team is very optimistic that he will be a factor for them in the stretch playoff run.
 
Seriously, are you a doctor? I'm wondering because i don't think anything's changed and there are two unknown sources, neither a doctor or speaking for the team, and 30 reports that are really just rehashes of those two.

I'd be curious if a medical person could at least throw out some possibilities.

Here's what we DO know about Jones' injury.

a. It wasn't bad enough to keep him off the field during the game after it happened.
b. It's a hip injury
c. Its serious enough to cost him anywhere from 4-8 games
d. The team is NEVER going to tell us anything about the injury for the next 4-8 weeks. Yet we will spend endless hours speculating about it.....for the next four to 8 weeks.. ;)

According to La Canfora:

Chandler Jones, the Patriots' top pass rushing threat and one of the key members of their defense, will not need surgery on his injured hip, according to sources with knowledge of the situation, and has been prescribed at least four weeks of rest until he can return.

He does not have a torn labrum, the sources said, and the team is very optimistic that he will be a factor for them in the stretch playoff run.

I am a physician, but not an orthopedic surgeon, and I wouldn't want to even speculate on Jones' injury without more information. Here's a nice lay overview of some common sports hip injuries:

http://www.coreperformance.com/knowledge/injury-pain/hip-injuries.html

Here's a nice powerpoint presentation discussing some of the many options to be considered in a differential diagnosis of sports hip injuries:

http://medicine.nevada.edu/Documents/unsom/statewide/echo/clinics/sports/Echo_Extra_Artic_Hip.pdf

Hip dislocations are extremely tricky, because the blood supply to the hip can be disrupted, leading to avascular necrosis (AVN) if prolonged. A disrupted blood supply causes ischemia to the hip, and if not resolved can lead to irreversible cell death and degeneration. This is what happened with Bo Jackson, who ended up needing a hip replacement. The following article has a nice lay overview, including a detailed discussion of the hip anatomy with some nice illustrations:

http://regressing.deadspin.com/could-modern-medicine-have-saved-bo-jacksons-career-1443105382

Reducing a dislocated hip generally requires general anesthesia and muscle relaxation ("paralysis"), because the surrounding muscles are so strong that it is generally not possible to get good reduction without deep anesthesia and relaxation. I've seen lots of times that 4 hulking orthopedic surgeons have struggled to reduce the hip of an emaciated little old lady who fell, without success, until proper conditions have been obtained. The Pats obviously don't release medical details, but we don't know of anything that suggests that Jones was hospitalized for this. A hip dislocation which cannot be reduced requires urgent surgery to avoid the risk of AVN.

Bryan Kelly and colleagues at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York (perhaps the pre-eminent orthopedic specialty hospital in the U.S.) surveyed the NFL Injury Surveillance System database for injuries between 1997 and 2006, and found a 3.1% incidence of hip injuries, with an average of 12.3 days lost per injury. Most injuries were minor contusions or muscle strains. Intra-articular injuries (those in the hip joint itself) were more severe, and resulted in a greater loss of playing time. The authors characterized a "sports hip triad" pattern common in the elite athlete involving labral tear, adductor strain, and rectus strain). Labral tears generally are treated with arthroscopic surgery followed by rest. We have yet to hear of Jones requiring surgery.

There are way too many possibilities to speculate what Jones' injury might be, but the hip joint is extremely complex and not to be trifled with. The last thing I would want would be to underestimate these kind of injuries and try and rush a player back. Nerve impingement, avascular necrosis, and chronic osteoarthirisis are all potential issues which could cause long term problems.
 
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I am a physician, but not an orthopedic surgeon, and I wouldn't want to even speculate on Jones' injury without more information. Here's a nice lay overview of some common sports hip injuries:

http://www.coreperformance.com/knowledge/injury-pain/hip-injuries.html

Here's a nice powerpoint presentation discussing some of the many options to be considered in a differential diagnosis of sports hip injuries:

http://medicine.nevada.edu/Documents/unsom/statewide/echo/clinics/sports/Echo_Extra_Artic_Hip.pdf

Hip dislocations are extremely tricky, because the blood supply to the hip can be disrupted, leading to avascular necrosis (AVN) if prolonged. A disrupted blood supply causes ischemia to the hip, and if not resolved can lead to irreversible cell death and degeneration. This is what happened with Bo Jackson, who ended up needing a hip replacement. The following article has a nice lay overview, including a detailed discussion of the hip anatomy with some nice illustrations:

http://regressing.deadspin.com/could-modern-medicine-have-saved-bo-jacksons-career-1443105382

Reducing a dislocated hip generally requires general anesthesia and muscle relaxation ("paralysis"), because the surrounding muscles are so strong that it is generally not possible to get good reduction without deep anesthesia and relaxation. I've seen lots of times that 4 hulking orthopedic surgeons have struggled to reduce the hip of an emaciated little old lady who fell, without success, until proper conditions have been obtained. The Pats obviously don't release medical details, but we don't know of anything that suggests that Jones was hospitalized for this. A hip dislocation which cannot be reduced required urgent surgery to avoid the risk of AVN.

Bryan Kelly and colleagues at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York (perhaps the pre-eminent orthopedic specialty hospital in the U.S.) surveyed the NFL Injury Surveillance System database for injuries between 1997 and 2006, and found a 3.1% incidence of hip injuries, with an average of 12.3 days lost per injury. Most injuries were minor contusions or muscle strains. Intra-articular injuries (those in the hip joint itself) were more severe, and resulted in a greater loss of playing time. The authors characterized a "sports hip triad" pattern common in the elite athlete involving labral tear, adductor strain, and rectus strain). Labral tears generally are treated with arthroscopic surgery followed by rest. We have yet to hear of Jones requiring surgery.

There are way too many possibilities to speculate what Jones' injury might be, but the hip joint is extremely complex and not to be trifled with. The last thing I would want would be to underestimate these kind of injuries and try and rush a player back. Nerve impingement, avascular necrosis, and chronic osteoarthirisis are all potential issues which could cause long term problems.

Thanks. I was going to call you out, but decided it was silly for me to speculate on a hip injury based on a couple very vague newspaper reports (there have been only 2 original reports as far as I can tell).
 
There are way too many possibilities to speculate what Jones' injury might be, but the hip joint is extremely complex and not to be trifled with. The last thing I would want would be to underestimate these kind of injuries and try and rush a player back. Nerve impingement, avascular necrosis, and chronic osteoarthirisis are all potential issues which could cause long term problems.

Here's a thought to put things in perspective: Brett Favre was diagnosed with avascular necrosis.

In 1992.

In other words, sometimes, it's really hard to predict how much a health issue is going to impact a player's career.
 
So no news of surgery...maybe that's a good thing? Been what 3 weeks now?
 
So no news of surgery...maybe that's a good thing? Been what 3 weeks now?

Honestly I wouldn't expect to see him back at practice until week 14 at the earliest. I personally think he played one of his last 2014 regular season games.
 
So, yeah, DE was pretty much unaddressed. Multiple positions of need were. That's what happens when you spend your first round pick on a rehab project and then waste your second round pick on a QB in a year you should be loading up.

I dont think GMing the Patriots from the Internet is as easy as you like to pretend it is.

I wonder who exactly you expected the Patriots to draft at the 29th and 58th spot that you feel would have made a significant impact for us this/their rookie year?
 
Did I miss something? Was it ever expected?

I know Im stating the obvious to many of us, but the fact that he hasn't been IR'd means something very significant in my mind.. about the potential of Jones' return.. and the value that Belichick puts on having him on the field for the playoffs.
 
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