OT: Why Have Peyton's Weapons Been Glossed Over By Everyone?

I was listening to Colin Cowherd yesterday driving home, and finally someone mainstream brought up Manning's weapons throughout his career not just now.

• Edgerrin James
• Eric Decker
• Demaryius Thomas
• Dallas Clark
• Emmanuel Sanders
• Joseph Addai
• Julius Thomas
• Marshall Faulk
• Marvin Harrison
• Pierre Garcon
• Reggie Wayne
• Wes Welker

Its funny how the media will say "Peyton is making these people who they are", when in reality, that is only partially true. A lot of the receivers have had success elsewhere or with different QB's. Just some examples below.


Demaryius Thomas with Tim Tebow

• 600 Yards in 11 Games

Emmanuel Sanders with Ben Roethlisberger

• 740 Yards and 6 TDs (granted, he will smash that this year)

Pierre Garcon with Robert Griffin III

• 1,346 Yards (career high) on 113 Receptions

Reggie Wayne with Andrew Luck

• 1,355 Yards without Manning

I have always been of the assumption that people gloss over these things because Peyton Manning possesses the following:

• Gives Off the Auora of Driving a Mini-Van/Buick
• Gives Off the Auora of Being Humble
• Extremely Average Looking (which most of America can relate to, part of the reason TB12 is so hated)

Holy dog ****, Batman. This is 6 threads on the first page either directly or indirectly about the Broncos. Obsessed much, guys? As for his weapons, they're sometimes glossed over (depending on who you read) but I've also seen a lot of people mention the weapons he's been given to work with over his career. It's usually brought up when he plays us when people dissect his career regular season stats vs. Brady's.

I said it before, and i'll say it again. Name me one QB who has had more weapons in NFL history.

TommyBrady12 said:

I said it before, and i'll say it again. Name me one QB who has had more weapons in NFL history.

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Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Troy Aikman. Arguably Terry Bradshaw.

That's not to take anything away from two out of three of those guys, but Young and Montana did get to throw to the greatest football player who ever lived. Nor is it to say Manning hasn't had absurd quality players around him over the course of his career, because it's really hard to deny that. But I'm not sure it should take anything away from guys like Montana, Young, or Manning (Aikman and Bradshaw, sure).

I'd take Addai out of the list tho...

They (colts, at least) spend disproportionately for offense and it has netted them one Super Bowl and an 11-12 playoff record. Compared to most teams, that's actually good (not great, but most teams have less playoff appearances, no SBs). Truth be told, Denver is new to Peyton, spends more on D and is probably mortgaging the future, but it's the same idea.

There are a handful of teams with successful models and being consistent, as Peyton teams are, means being consistently good. Our model is more successful and there are others that have been consistently successful.

That being said, why, other than in fantasy football, are only wide receivers considered weapons? Over the years, with the worst draft position overall because of consistency, the Patriots have the least weaknesses when injuries hit and enough offense and defense to get the job done.

We have the best model and, besides Peyton, no other has been competitive during the whole stretch since Belichick took over. Better to have weapons strategically lined up than a few impressive missiles that can be defended come playoff time.

It is no coincidence (and we've experienced it) that teams with gaudy passing records and untested, or insufficient defenses, lines, running games etc. fail so often in the post season.

Anything known can be defended if you're willing to risk being hurt elsewhere and bad defenses or running games (*cough* 2007) covered up for by massive early wins, can be exposed.

without looking through patriot homer glasses its pretty clear to see the differences between manning and brady but I won't say anything.

TommyBrady12 said:

I said it before, and i'll say it again. Name me one QB who has had more weapons in NFL history.

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Are good defenses weapons?

More Manning threads Please!

primetime said:

Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Troy Aikman. Arguably Terry Bradshaw.

That's not to take anything away from two out of three of those guys, but Young and Montana did get to throw to the greatest football player who ever lived. Nor is it to say Manning hasn't had absurd quality players around him over the course of his career, because it's really hard to deny that. But I'm not sure it should take anything away from guys like Montana, Young, or Manning (Aikman and Bradshaw, sure).

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Aikman - irvin, smith, novacek

Montana/young - rice, taylor, craig, brent jones

Bradshaw - stallworth, swann

Manning - harrison, wayne, clarke, james, d thomas, j thomas, welker, decker, sanders

RayClay said:

Are good defenses weapons?

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No, i am just rationalizing his stat padding

TommyBrady12 said:

Aikman - irvin, smith, novacek

Montana/young - rice, taylor, craig, brent jones

Bradshaw - stallworth, swann

Manning - harrison, wayne, clarke, james, d thomas, j thomas, welker, decker, sanders

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Young also had TO, Ricky Watters. Aikman had an unbelievable offensive line. Bradshaw had Franco Harris.

Some of those Manning players are just average guys who Manning made better, though. Harrison, Wayne, Demaryius Thomas, and probably Clark and Julius Thomas were great, but Decker, Sanders, and old injured Welker are largely kept afloat by Manning and being surrounded by other guys. I mean, Austin Collie was probably a better pure football player than Sanders or Decker before Manning got him killed.

TommyBrady12 said:

No, i am just rationalizing his stat padding

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I understand that's about all there is to talk about these days. Actually, I would load up on offense if i had Manning, because he isn't going to consistently win close games anyway. The model's been very successful, but more so in the regular season.

Our quarterback can win more ways and hasn't been as successful when the team became unbalanced, so we would be foolish to let our balance and depth suffer.

The credit you get for any victory margins over one point is zero and always will be. You're just masking, or causing, weaknesses elsewhere.

"Everybody can't have high stats every week," he told the Web site. "It's impossible. We can always pick out somebody and say, 'What happened to them?'" The coach made it clear that nobody will ever catch him evaluating his players based on their single-game stats. "Stats are for losers," Belichick said. "The final score is for winners."

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Read more at: http://nesn.com/2009/12/bill-belichick-stats-are-for-losers/

if the forehead can only win one more SB then it will solidify him as the GOAT

stop choking, peyton

hopefully their team (defense in particular) is good enough to get over the hump this year

I'm starting to think that a lot of members here go in to some rage fueled mode as soon as they hear the name "Manning" and then they stop hearing what's said. Because I've heard his weapons mentioned a bunch of times by a bunch of different sports media.

james87654 said:

if the forehead can only win one more SB then it will solidify him as the GOAT

stop choking, peyton

hopefully their team (defense in particular) is good enough to get over the hump this year

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Hopefully not

Manning has weapons because if he did not he would be complaining and bashing Elway and the front office during news conferences just like he bashed the scoreboard person the other night. Brady does not do that.

james87654 said:

if the forehead can only win one more SB then it will solidify him as the GOAT

stop choking, peyton

hopefully their team (defense in particular) is good enough to get over the hump this year

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With all due respect, this is utter crap in my opinion.

Manning wins another ring, and he'll be sitting with 14 playoff wins, 4 AFC Championships, and 2 SB rings. Brady is currently sitting at 18 playoff wins, 5 AFC championships, and 3 SB rings. Who has the edge here?

And as far as SB performances go, I'll take Brady's cumulative body of work there over Peyton's every time. Tom never embarrassed himself like Manning did in 48.

You can look at stats all you want, but results in the playoffs are what matter. A poster on here basically put it this way in regards to the whole Manning vs. Brady debate. "Peyton is one ring away from being in the discussion, Brady is one ring away from ending it entirely" (20+ playoff wins and 4 SBs in the cap era? I'd agree with that argument entirely). The idea that Manning will have "solidified" his place as the GOAT with a 2nd ring is preposterous in my opinion.

I don't hate Manning, he seems like a consummate competitor who loves the sport every bit as much as Tom does, has a fantastic football intellect, and as Primetime mentioned, he's a great enough QB to take a solid but not great receiver like Sanders, and make him look like an elite talent. He's probably one of the 10 best QBs to ever play the game, but I simply do not view him as being better than Tom.

james87654 said:

if the forehead can only win one more SB then it will solidify him as the GOAT

stop choking, peyton

hopefully their team (defense in particular) is good enough to get over the hump this year

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I think you typed the wrong website URL. This is a Patriots forum we hope that Brady can win another Super Bowl not Peyton Manning.

Brady6 said:

Manning has weapons because if he did not he would be complaining and bashing Elway and the front office during news conferences just like he bashed the scoreboard person the other night. Brady does not do that.

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He also joined a team that consistently drafted in the lower and mid rounders before he joined, as you so astutely pointed out in an earlier thread B6. That, and the fact that his team isn't swallowing 7+ million in cap space due to catastrophically stupid actions of one of their erstwhile best weapons, has helped Denver a lot. Granted, I think they've managed their finances pretty well (they've got a lot of cap space next season) but they haven't been hit with an unknown-unknown to the degree that the Pats have.